Doodle Breeders' Discussion Forum - I am with you Kiley-

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I would and will gladly pay more Vetgen, Optigen and DDC for my testing.

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Ingen vs Optigen — Louise- Halton Hills Labradoodles, Wed Jun 20 11:13

Hi everyone I've run into an issue with an Ingen test on one of my dogs. I have always used Ingen swabs and trusted that the results were accurate. I have never had a result that was inconclusive or... more
- Your situation is really sad news. I understand — Joyce of Annabelle Doodles, Fri Jun 22 07:34
  
  why you are so upset, I would be as well. I have used all three companies PID/InGen and Optigen with correct results from all based on progeny kept and tested. To find out how this happened is... more
- I wonder if they should have to back your warranty — Kendra~ Noble Vestal Labradoodle, Thu Jun 21 16:01
  
  on the Affected puppies.
- My heart goes out to you. I also have had a wrong result — Barb @ Gemstone's, Thu Jun 21 15:03
  
  from Ingen but it was not nearly so serious. The dog in question was called affected by Ingen and was actually clear. The parents had been cleared by Optigen and later the dog in question was also... more
- - Was the original test by ingen or Pawsitive ID? — 8doodles, Thu Jun 21 17:43
    
    Can some one please clarify for me was the original test that was being relied on for a PRA clear result a test from Ingen or from the Pawsitive ID company? I understand that the company was sold and ... more
  - - What a great letter addressing legitimate concerns — Joyce of Annabelle Doodles, Thu Jun 21 18:45
      
      that the registries avoid. There are so many points that I would love to address, but won't because I have 'banged those drums for years'! It is nice to know I am not the only 'lone ranger' out there ... more
- somehow, I am not surprised... — Kiley/Harmony, Thu Jun 21 13:34
  
  First of all, I am so sorry this happened to you. Totally sucks. To me, they need to make amends beyond a retest! Vetgen is in Ann Arbor, MI, home to U of Michigan. Optigen is in Ithaca, home to... more
- - I am with you Kiley- — Kendra~ Noble Vestal Labradoodle, Thu Jun 21 16:03
- Swab Contamination Issue — DNA guy, Thu Jun 21 12:15
  
  I've been working in the molecular biology/DNA testing field for over 10 years; I can tell you this: it is very hard to contaminate the swab this much that the sample instead of "Normal" would be... more
- - So what you are saying is that if a sample — Louise- Halton Hills Labradoodles, Fri Jun 22 16:20
    
    has foreign matter along with the canine dna then the test would come back inconclusive not give a false result one way or another? Interesting. I had this conversation with a vet student (who... more
  - InGen Results — Rick Dobbins, Thu Jun 21 13:12
    
    I thought I was clear in my earlier post that I was not “blaming” Ms. Sutherland for an improperly collected sample. I was trying to outline the possibilities that may have occurred here and... more
  - - My stud's blood sample has arrived at Optigen today... — Louise- Halton Hills Labradoodles, Fri Jun 22 16:00
      
      It will take 2 weeks to get the results. I am also still waiting for the 2nd test that you are providing and will send you the swabs promptly.
- InGen Testing — Rick Dobbins, Thu Jun 21 10:30
  
  Good Morning Labradoodle Breeders: I am the General Manager of International Genetics, Inc. The post here from Ms. Sutherland has come to my attention and I want to address this. Ms. Sutherland has... more
- - Excuse me, but how can you say you never had a — Barb @ Gemstone's, Thu Jun 21 14:58
    
    conflicting result from another lab? Is your memory that short? You tested a dog that came from Gemstone as affected. Another breeder owned her. Both parents had been tested by Optigen as clear... more
  - - InGen Results — Rick Dobbins, Thu Jun 21 16:18
      
      Ms. Gaffney, we have not heard from you since you purchased 15 of the older Pawsitive I.D. test kits in March of 2008. For those of you who don’t know or do not remember, Pawsitive I.D. was a genetic ... more
    - - where as Ingen.bs gone?? — Anonymous, Fri Jan 11 11:44
        
        The later part of 2012 we sent in 10 tests for PRA. Now I can't fine ingen.bs website AND the contact email I had for them bounced back. Where has Ingen gone????? I would hesitate recommending this... more
      - They sent out emails to customers and said results would be — Barb@Gemstone's, Sat Jan 12 13:19
        
        available on line for a short time. I can't remember the date they said because I had no tests in. I haven't used them for years but I got the email. Maybe they missed you.
        Re: They sent out emails to customers and said results would be — Anonymous, Sat Jan 12 13:28
        
        I have 10 tests in with them right now. I didn't receive an email but I certainly will check the site again. I tried getting into their website last week and it wouldn't come up. Thanks for the... more
        Re: where as Ingen.bs gone?? — Anonymous, Sat Jan 12 07:58
        
        Ingen,bs has gone out of business!!
      - You sent me a free test kit in response to the issue I have — Barb @ Gemstone's, Thu Jun 21 17:45
        
        just mentioned. The dog was Gemstone's Carnelian and the owner who did all the testing was Acadian Labradoodles. You questioned the parentage of Nellie so I had the parents DNA tested for... more
- What is also disturbing is the "oops..sorry about that" — Louise- Halton Hills Labradoodles, Thu Jun 21 08:10
  
  attitude of Ingen. My puppies are going to be paying the ultimate price and Ingen don't seem to really care. I have asked for a refund for the 7 or 8 unused tests that I still have.....no reply from... more
- - If you paid by c/c — Cris, Thu Jun 21 10:35
    
    and it is within the c/c's time guidelines, you could file with your c/c company. There have been a few breeders on this chat who have been friendly with the folks at INGEN, and it would not surprise ... more
- Thanks Louise for sharing your story — Linda - Canadian Doodle Puppies, Thu Jun 21 07:35
  
  I'm a big believer in sharing lessons learned. No point in all of us learning on our own. We learn much faster and much less painfully when we can all learn from each other.
- Thanks for the heads up! — Debbie@Labradoodles by DJ, Thu Jun 21 07:15
  
  Your terrible experience will help many of us avoid the same mistake!! Disgraceful attitude of Ingen! Guess they don't get the concept that if we are all retesting with blood tests we are not coming... more
- This is Terrible! — Jenny @ Labradoodle Dreams, Thu Jun 21 05:41
  
  Thank you for sharing this. It is very brave to be so forth coming on a public forum like this. I want to thank you sharing tho. A lot of breeders (me included) have used Ingen and now we are all... more
- - There aren't two incidences of this... — Linda - Canadian Doodle Puppies, Thu Jun 21 07:33
    
    I shared this story with you Jenny, but I am the dam owner in Louise's case, so it is only one incident. Unless it isn't me you are referring to.
  - - just one incident — Jenny @ Labradoodle Dreams, Thu Jun 21 07:56
      
      Yep, it was you I had spoken with. I forgot you work together. :0) That's a little easier to swallow. But, still, after talking with you, I won't be using them again. It's just too big of a risk. All ... more
- Heartbreaking — Cheyene, Leapfrog Labradoodles, Thu Jun 21 00:40
  
  I'm so sorry you are dealing with this after doing everything right. Thank you for sharing your own heartbreaking story so that others can take steps to avoid being in the same terrible position you... more
- the dam's owner — Cris VA Labradoodle, Wed Jun 20 16:58
  
  The dam owner should probably re-test her dog also. It may very well be the male, but cannot be assumed. Also, disappointing that Ingen takes no responsibility that it could be an error on their end. ... more
- - I have retested all my dogs that: — Linda - Canadian Doodle Puppies, Thu Jun 21 07:38
    
    have an InGen clearance anywhere in their ancestry and/or have a clearance that is more than 2 generations old (regardless of source). The dam didn't meet either of these criteria, but I retested her ... more
  - - Re: I have retested all my dogs that: — Darlene, Fri Jun 22 07:59
      
      As you all know, I'm new, normally breed Cockapoos, but, I can also say I have no faith in Ingen. I have a friend who has a male that is from two PRA affected dogs. At the time she tested him through ... more
    - Parentage DNA? — Don@CreamPuffLabradoodles.com, Thu Jun 21 12:40
      
      Linda, I know it's an outside chance, but have u DNA tested your affected pup to insure that Louise's Stud is indeed the Sire?
    - - Do you mean that there is another sire? — Linda - Canadian Doodle Puppies, Thu Jun 21 15:08
        
        They can't be anyone else's.
      - Yes. That is what Ingen suggested as a possibility in their — Don@CreamPuffLabradoodles.com, Thu Jun 21 15:48
        
        post here. I don't know if it was an AI or natural breeding but there is usually a very small margin of error for that possibility. With shipped semen a lab tech could make an error and send wrong... more
    - I feel similarly to you. — Cris, Thu Jun 21 10:45
      
      Paying for the test on each dog (for a test you trust) is very small on the scale of what it costs to raise and produce a high-caliber breeding dog. Thanks for sharing and what nice service from... more
  - She as already done that....there is no other conclusion — Louise- Halton Hills Labradoodles, Wed Jun 20 17:15
    
    .....to draw as he is from a carrier parent....his blood test results should be back soon. I did a cheek swab at the guardians home...the same as I do all my other dogs. I run the brush on the inside ... more
  - - unfortunate..... — Cris, Wed Jun 20 21:11
      
      So sorry this happened to you. I agree it is very costly to your program...bummer. I have not worked in over 16 years, and worked with PCR on samples for DNA analysis in the 90's. From what you... more
- OMG what a horrible mistake! I am so sorry. — Kay - Wonderland Labradoodles, Wed Jun 20 16:27
  
  Thank you for sharing this.
- I'm vey sad for you, but glad you are — Debbie-FernRidge, Wed Jun 20 13:25
  
  so honest to tell us about the error so we are aware of it! I commend you for that, Lousie!
- Louise, I am so sorry. Thanks so much for sharing with us. — marypat@nestlewoodlabradoodles, Wed Jun 20 12:26
  
  In good faith you tested your dogs. Who would have thought this could happen? Praying your pups end up ok.
- So sorry Louise:( — linda@omg, Wed Jun 20 12:02
  
  That's awful. I hope that this somehow resolves without the worst case scenario. Thanks for letting us know.

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