There is a study on the PennHIP site, which says a lot of things, but also says:
All dogs with OFA-rated borderline hip joints or mild, moderate, or severe hip dysplasia had a DI ≥ 0.30 (range, 0.30 to 0.83).
Which means that if this dog has OFA borderline or lower, he doesn't exist in the studies to date. This would make me question whether there was a problem with the x-rays. The problem could be with the recent OFA x-rays. Perhaps the person taking them didn't do them correctly. OR perhaps the PennHIP x-rays were not taken correctly when he was 3. That is also a possibility. Was he sedated for the PennHIP x-rays. Although both PennHIP and OFA are very clear dogs must be sedated, I've seen breeders post that their dogs were not sedated because they are so cooperative. The need for sedation has nothing to do with cooperative, it has to do with accurate results. But even with sedated dogs, it is possible for the person taking the x-rays to influence the result if not done correctly.
I know I'm treading into dangerous territory, but as I understand it, PennHIP is the better predictor of HD. The problem is its high false positive rate. Meaning, if you rely only on PennHIP you will eliminate a lot of dogs that would have been perfect for breeding. This has consequences in narrowing the gene pool unnecessarily and to the determinant of the breed.
Lastly, although I am a HUGE supporter of hip testing, as I understand it HD is very polygenic. The fact some offspring could be fair or mild, might have to do with the mother, might have to do with the particular combination, might have to do with a whole host of things we can't measure. So hip testing is the best we have and we would be negligent not to use it, we need to be careful not to forget how complicated this stuff really is.
Hi everyone....I know this subject has been hashed and rehashed a dozen times but I would like some feedback If you purchased a stud that was OFA prelim Good and PH'd at 3 years of age at 70% and you ... more
I didn't mention that although I like to use OFA for certifications in addition to PH, I don't like that OFA will bump down the report based on the poorer hip. It's times like this that consulting an ... more
Just an FWI, Penn Hip gives its % on the lowest scoring hip. That is exactly the same in classification as OFA, scoring on the lowest hip. The only different is you have the number on each hip but... more
My point is that I think it can be helpful to get the hips graded separately. Though the PH% ranking is based on the poorer hip, at least you have information on both hips in the report. So no, OFA... more
My new puppy from Kiley at Harmony had both tests done. OFA Excellent and the Pen hip was good on the one hip and the other didn't get rated due to "cavitation". I asked my vet what this was and the... more
I understand what you mean Cris. I had a girl go from a prelim of excellant to a final of fair with OFA. I called Dr. Keller to discuss this drop. He said that only one hip was fair, the other would... more
If he comes back Fair I would continue to breed him. If he comes back Mild HD I would not. For me, this has very little to do with PH as an OFA rating of Borderline or Mild HD would eliminate a dog... more
Has he had an injury? Are both sides about the same? I think the OFA is more likely to have a poor xray. Because PH uses 3 shots and the expanders, I think the likelyhood of a poor xray is less. I... more
critical to outcomes. If more breeders were adament about the positioning being correct, I think it would reflect better outcomes. OFA does NOT require anesthesia but P/H does. Lots of breeders use... more
Is critical! But sending in 10 films with one well positioned and the others showing the dog shifted or him or her alligned poorly is just foolish. Why would you not send in the best representation... more
You are correct, Joyce. The vet is obligated to send in each film taken. My vet does the plain film for OFA first. If she thinks it looks good, she does the PH series. If she doesn't think the OFA is ... more
I can't imagine why anyone would want to make bad hips look good due to the fact that we as doodle breeders offer extensive health gurantees it just does not make sence finically to breed a dog with... more
A dog under anesthesia is relaxed, there for it would be much easier for a the vet to manipulate the femoral head into the acetabular fossa making it appear better...:) If the dogs hips are loose and ... more
done but I do see all the x-rays that were taken and all of them have a sequential number. All dogs that have a P/H must be under anesthesia - no exceptions. Also, P/H looks for the 'edges of the... more
That in order to exert the correct pressure with those bars the dog must be still therefor needing the relaxed state. I am suprised you have not been in there and seen one. The vet who I was going to ... more
I have never point blank asked, and since he does surgeries on the day of P/H, he is never quite sure when he fits the P/H in. I shall ask someday as I would love to see the process. Typically, no... more
as it helps better to understand what they are doing..for me it would for sure. Most of mine are Wallace, I have several of my older girls are OFA'd. About 3/4 of mine were done with no anesthesia... more
PennHIP study Linda - Canadian Doodle Puppies,Mon Jul 16 07:32
Sadly, almost all labradoodles have a DI that is greater than .3. The vast majoriety are in the .4-.5 range. So that tells me two things. Number one, labradoodle hips are nowhere near as tight as... more
I like having a bigger picture. What I do with the answers is my choice but at least I know what I am dealing with. You are right, the majority of Labradoodles do not fall in the .3 range at all.... more
old was 70%? It was not done at 16 weeks, was it? If it was at three years old and IS 70% and P/H did not show any DJD or make a note of it, I would say you are good. It means his 'weight bearing'... more
prelim was done around 9 months of age and was ofa good. Now a few short years later the vet that took the film for the ofa final says one hip look bad and he may fail. No word from ofa yet but they... more
I have had a Wallace Good at 10 months go to OFA Mild HD at just over 2 years (with subluxation only checked off). Dr. Wallace rated the OFA final x-rays as "Fair." I neutered without doing PennHip... more
One was done at 8 months by another breeder and was OFA excellent and the rest were done from 12 to 15 months and yes, they were either OFA good or excellent. My girl has produced amazing hips with... more
Very true Cheyene, Leapfrog Labradoodles,Mon Jul 16 20:33
I did consider mentioning this but decided it was not my place to do so since the puppies in question were not part of my breeding program. Thanks for chiming in with this other important piece of... more
First, I would wait for the report. Right now you don't know what OFA will call it. I am concerned that the vet thinks one hip looks bad, which could be pathologic or injury. Were the prelims sent to ... more