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Shedless in Seattle
PH
Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:50
71.197.181.53

Louise,

I would retest using both OFA and PH, given the information you shared if he is great in other respects.

Blessings,
Jan

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  • OFA vs PH — Louise- Halton Hills Labradoodles, Sun Jul 15 10:07
    Hi everyone....I know this subject has been hashed and rehashed a dozen times but I would like some feedback If you purchased a stud that was OFA prelim Good and PH'd at 3 years of age at 70% and you ... more
    • PH — Shedless in Seattle, Fri Jul 20 11:50
    • glad to see active participation — Cris, Tue Jul 17 11:30
      I didn't mention that although I like to use OFA for certifications in addition to PH, I don't like that OFA will bump down the report based on the poorer hip. It's times like this that consulting an ... more
      • Re: glad to see active participation — Heather Hale, Tue Jul 17 23:19
        Just an FWI, Penn Hip gives its % on the lowest scoring hip. That is exactly the same in classification as OFA, scoring on the lowest hip. The only different is you have the number on each hip but... more
        • OFA and PH — Cris, Wed Jul 18 00:05
          My point is that I think it can be helpful to get the hips graded separately. Though the PH% ranking is based on the poorer hip, at least you have information on both hips in the report. So no, OFA... more
          • pen hip — Susan Wilde, Thu Jul 19 04:15
            My new puppy from Kiley at Harmony had both tests done. OFA Excellent and the Pen hip was good on the one hip and the other didn't get rated due to "cavitation". I asked my vet what this was and the... more
          • Re: OFA and PH — Hilary @Greenwoodpark Labradoodl, Wed Jul 18 15:50
            I understand what you mean Cris. I had a girl go from a prelim of excellant to a final of fair with OFA. I called Dr. Keller to discuss this drop. He said that only one hip was fair, the other would... more
    • Fair vs Mild HD — Kelly-Orchard View Labradoodles, Mon Jul 16 15:24
      If he comes back Fair I would continue to breed him. If he comes back Mild HD I would not. For me, this has very little to do with PH as an OFA rating of Borderline or Mild HD would eliminate a dog... more
      • Re: Fair vs Mild HD — Heather Hale, Mon Jul 16 15:39
        I agree 100%. I would not bred a dog with a boarding or an HD diagnosis no matter what the penn hip said. I would use a Fair. It is a passing score. Just my 2 cents!!
    • PH vs OFA — Cathie - Placer Goldendoodles, Mon Jul 16 09:34
      Has he had an injury? Are both sides about the same? I think the OFA is more likely to have a poor xray. Because PH uses 3 shots and the expanders, I think the likelyhood of a poor xray is less. I... more
      • I agree Cathie. The x-ray positioning is — Joyce of Annabelle Doodles, Mon Jul 16 10:19
        critical to outcomes. If more breeders were adament about the positioning being correct, I think it would reflect better outcomes. OFA does NOT require anesthesia but P/H does. Lots of breeders use... more
        • Positioning — Carol/scl, Mon Jul 16 20:52
          Is critical! But sending in 10 films with one well positioned and the others showing the dog shifted or him or her alligned poorly is just foolish. Why would you not send in the best representation... more
          • I have just been told that P/H requires — Joyce of Annabelle Doodles, Mon Jul 16 21:26
            all the x-rays numbered sequentially to be sent in. I cannot imagine that x-rays taken without anesthesia for OFA are a true representation of the hips. Dogs are suppose to be relaxed and the... more
            • PH films — Cris VA Labradoodle, Tue Jul 17 11:23
              You are correct, Joyce. The vet is obligated to send in each film taken. My vet does the plain film for OFA first. If she thinks it looks good, she does the PH series. If she doesn't think the OFA is ... more
            • If one could why would they.. — Holly~Four Paws Dood Ranch, Tue Jul 17 11:01
              I can't imagine why anyone would want to make bad hips look good due to the fact that we as doodle breeders offer extensive health gurantees it just does not make sence finically to breed a dog with... more
            • That could be argued both ways. — Carol Dean, Mon Jul 16 21:45
              A dog under anesthesia is relaxed, there for it would be much easier for a the vet to manipulate the femoral head into the acetabular fossa making it appear better...:) If the dogs hips are loose and ... more
              • I have never witnessed a P/H being — Joyce of Annabelle Doodles, Mon Jul 16 22:16
                done but I do see all the x-rays that were taken and all of them have a sequential number. All dogs that have a P/H must be under anesthesia - no exceptions. Also, P/H looks for the 'edges of the... more
                • Heartworm..... I was told by my Pennhip vet to make sure — judiblue, Thu Jul 19 12:08
                  that my guardian homes are using HW meds as if they have HW, they can die from anesthesia...so that is important too!
                • I would imagine — Carol/scl, Mon Jul 16 22:34
                  That in order to exert the correct pressure with those bars the dog must be still therefor needing the relaxed state. I am suprised you have not been in there and seen one. The vet who I was going to ... more
                  • I wish I could see it too. — Joyce of Annabelle Doodles, Tue Jul 17 07:20
                    I have never point blank asked, and since he does surgeries on the day of P/H, he is never quite sure when he fits the P/H in. I shall ask someday as I would love to see the process. Typically, no... more
                    • It would be interesting to see one done — Carol/scl, Tue Jul 17 13:39
                      as it helps better to understand what they are doing..for me it would for sure. Most of mine are Wallace, I have several of my older girls are OFA'd. About 3/4 of mine were done with no anesthesia... more
    • PennHIP study — Linda - Canadian Doodle Puppies, Mon Jul 16 07:32
      There is a study on the PennHIP site, which says a lot of things, but also says: All dogs with OFA-rated borderline hip joints or mild, moderate, or severe hip dysplasia had a DI ≥ 0.30 (range, ... more
      • Re: PennHIP study — Hilary @Greenwoodpark Labradoodl, Mon Jul 16 10:25
        Sadly, almost all labradoodles have a DI that is greater than .3. The vast majoriety are in the .4-.5 range. So that tells me two things. Number one, labradoodle hips are nowhere near as tight as... more
        • This is why I always do both and certify with OFA. — Joyce of Annabelle Doodles, Mon Jul 16 11:02
          I like having a bigger picture. What I do with the answers is my choice but at least I know what I am dealing with. You are right, the majority of Labradoodles do not fall in the .3 range at all.... more
    • Are you saying that his P/H at 3 years — Joyce of Annabelle Doodles, Sun Jul 15 11:53
      old was 70%? It was not done at 16 weeks, was it? If it was at three years old and IS 70% and P/H did not show any DJD or make a note of it, I would say you are good. It means his 'weight bearing'... more
      • yes his PH was done at 3yrs. The ofa — Louise- Halton Hills Labradoodles, Sun Jul 15 16:27
        prelim was done around 9 months of age and was ofa good. Now a few short years later the vet that took the film for the ofa final says one hip look bad and he may fail. No word from ofa yet but they... more
        • Re: yes his PH was done at 3yrs. The ofa — Cheyene, Leapfrog Labradoodles, Sun Jul 15 19:25
          PS - please make sure your OFA x-rays are perfect. I have also had the same dog rated as mild hd and excellent by ofa with 2 different sets of x-rays. Never a dull moment it seems.
        • Re: yes his PH was done at 3yrs. The ofa — Cheyene, Leapfrog Labradoodles, Sun Jul 15 19:23
          I have had a Wallace Good at 10 months go to OFA Mild HD at just over 2 years (with subluxation only checked off). Dr. Wallace rated the OFA final x-rays as "Fair." I neutered without doing PennHip... more
          • Don't forget to mention that the dog in question produced — Barb @ Gemstone's, Mon Jul 16 01:12
            many OFA goods and excellents before the final OFA that said mild hd.
            • Adult progeny? — Cris VA Labradoodle, Tue Jul 17 11:27
              Wondering if there is adult (at least 12 month) testing on the progeny? Is it OFA or another evaluation?
              • The puppies are mine and I never test before 12 months — Barb @ Gemstone's, Wed Jul 18 01:16
                One was done at 8 months by another breeder and was OFA excellent and the rest were done from 12 to 15 months and yes, they were either OFA good or excellent. My girl has produced amazing hips with... more
            • Very true — Cheyene, Leapfrog Labradoodles, Mon Jul 16 20:33
              I did consider mentioning this but decided it was not my place to do so since the puppies in question were not part of my breeding program. Thanks for chiming in with this other important piece of... more
        • report — Cris VA Labradoodle, Sun Jul 15 17:53
          First, I would wait for the report. Right now you don't know what OFA will call it. I am concerned that the vet thinks one hip looks bad, which could be pathologic or injury. Were the prelims sent to ... more
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