"TEXAS, by GOD"and The Twin Territories , NM and Az - Thanks for the post, Tucson Bernie (nm)

"Texas, by God"and the TWIN TERRITORIES

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Speaking of Wyatt Earp...#251 — Tucson Bernie, Wed Jul 16 16:02

"Secondly, because of Peabody, this is a vindication for the life of Wyatt Earp. A man's character can best be judged by the character of those who admire and knew him. Wyatt Earp can have no greater ... more
- Am I missing something here? — Anne Collier, Tue Jul 22 11:14
  
  I realize I have been busy the past week so I'm late to the dance, but it seems to me the quote that started this thread should be attributed to Cindy and not Peabody - am I missing something here?... more
- Thanks for the post, Tucson Bernie (nm) — James Wright, Sun Jul 20 16:14
- Re: Speaking of Wyatt Earp...#251 — Tombstone Duffy, Fri Jul 18 10:48
  
  Thanks for a purrfectly fine post Tucson Bernie. Always a treat to hear from you.
- Peabody's endorsement? — Joyce Aros, Thu Jul 17 14:22
  
  One has to wonder just how much close association and observation of the Earp brothers Endicott Peabody actually had. Peabody seemed to be closely associated with Parsons, a man who was totally... more
- - Actually, Joyce — Gary Roberts, Sat Jul 19 10:14
    
    Peabody was first told about the Tombstone troubles by Judge Stilwell over dinner shortly after he arrived. Milton Clapp was another of his regular associates while he was in Tombstone. If you... more
  - There is no indication, Joyce... — Allen Barra, Thu Jul 17 17:14
    
    that Peadbody'd "endorsement" of Wyatt Earp came from second hand sources. In fact, he seems to have known Earp better tha Parsons.
- Re: Speaking of Wyatt Earp...#251 — Bob Cash, Wed Jul 16 16:45
  
  I know Cindy's book is a must read that I haven't read yet (it's on my list, Cindy), but I doubt that Rev. Peabody would have admired Wyatt if he knew about his pimping out the teen aged Sarah... more
- - Peabody — Gary Roberts, Sat Jul 19 09:29
    
    Bob, You really should read this book. Peabody did not arrive in Tombstone until January 1882. He left in July, 1882. So he was there during the turmoil of the vendetta. In 1925, he described the... more
  - - Gary/Peabody — Joyce Aros, Sun Jul 20 11:29
      
      Gary, I did read Cindy's book on Peabody's diaries and found it quite interesting and revealing about the man. However, on the quotes you offered regarding his comments on Earp's exit from Tombstone, ... more
    - - Peabody's diary — Gary Roberts, Sun Jul 20 12:39
        
        Joyce, I find diaries frequently frustrating because of what is NOT said. Most are written for one's self with no intent to share, so what IS shared is frequently important because it tells us what... more
      - Gary/Peabody — Joyce Aros, Sun Jul 20 20:19
        
        Hello Gary, There's a great deal of merit in what you say and much I have to agree with. But you do make my point that Peabody's viewpoint was likely more built on the views of the company he kept... more
        What price judgment? — Gary Roberts, Mon Jul 21 08:32
        
        Joyce, you're making a whole lot of assumptions and judgments here that are based upon conclusions that frankly were not possible for most people on the ground at the time. I certainly am not... more
        Two priests and a soap salesman walk into a bar.... — Jeff Smith, Mon Jul 21 12:14
        
        Most will agree that Soapy Smith was not one of the "good" guys...yet in my research there are at least two priests that had good things to say about the man...and not so good things about lawmen.... more
        Gary/ Judgemental? — Joyce Aros, Mon Jul 21 11:40
        
        I think that we are all forgetting that my comments and critical evaluations are based on and should be contained in the context of a discussion on the opening post from Tucson Bernie. Here Peabody,... more
        But Joyce, — Gary Roberts, Mon Jul 21 13:38
        
        in your posts you didn't disagree with Cindy and suggest that she overstated the case; you attacked Peabody. That led inevitably to the rest. And I fail to see what in Peabody's behavior in Tombstone ... more
    - Re: Peabody — Bob Cash, Sat Jul 19 14:57
      
      Gary, Cindy's book is on my short list and several people have told me it was a signifigant contribution to the field. I was aware that Peabody, in general, viewed the Earps favorably as far as their ... more
  - If that was the case... — Allen Barra, Fri Jul 18 12:42
    
    he would have excluded virtually everyone on the frontier, as just about everyone partook of similar vices some where along the line. As he got money for building St.Paul's from Wyatt's gambling... more
  - And Bob, I would add — Butch Badon, Thu Jul 17 12:23
    
    from my perspective that preachers are not exactly the kind of people I want to have vouching for me. Otherwise, I would have no trouble with the likes of Jim Bakker, Jerry Falwell, etc., etc.,... more
  - - There's no way, Butch... — Allen Barra, Thu Jul 17 17:13
      
      you're going to connect Endy Peabody and Jerry Falwell/Jim Bakker. Peabody was hugely respected in his own time, not merely as a man of the cloth but as an educator. Ask FDR.
    - - Did not try and connect Peabody with — Butch Badon, Fri Jul 18 09:23
        
        those guys. Was connecting ALL PREACHERS with those guys. I was raised a Southern Baptist. I am now a BACKSLIDIN' BAPTIST and Proud of It. All PREACERS - Baptist or otherwise - are hypocrites. That's ... more
      - Your "opinions" aside.. — Allen Barra, Fri Jul 18 12:39
        
        there is nothing but good opinion of Peabody in his own time.
        Yes and there are a lot of good — Butch Badon, Sun Jul 20 12:50
        
        opinions today of what Rev. Billy Graham has done. But he was just another shyster looking for a politcal "in." And he found it in the person of Richard Nixon among others. Why do preachers get... more
        Your "opinion" of Billy Graham is beside the point.. — Allen Barra, Tue Jul 22 01:24
        
        and you don't get away with dismissing Peabody because you have an "opinion" of him based on no evidence at all. Everyone has a right to an opinion; noone has a right to have that opinion respected... more
        Butch/ preachers — Joyce Aros, Sun Jul 20 19:51
        
        Butch, There is a lot of truth in what you say. Clergymen are not supposed to be involved in politics nor take sides in civic matters. Jesus said his followers would be 'no part of the world.' yet,... more
        I doubt Peabody considered Wyatt Earp a murder. — Jeff Morey, Mon Jul 21 09:07
        
        Joyce, In the 19th century, the notion of "justifiable homicide" was much more widely applied and embraced than it is today. Remember Joyce, you are simply a "commentator". Your opinions aren't... more
        Jeff/ Peabody. — Joyce Aros, Mon Jul 21 12:06
        
        Jeff, Scratch that last silly post, please. You are absolutely right. My opinions are indeed less than lightening bolts, and they don't come down from heaven. A good observation! However, are my... more
        Whatever you accomplishments..... — Jeff Morey, Mon Jul 21 14:54
        
        Joyce, Whatever your accomplishments, your disparagement of Endicott Peabody was very poorly considered. And, yes, I expect the Rev. Peabody did understand the difference between justifiable homicide ... more
        Disparagement? — Joyce Aros, Mon Jul 21 19:58
        
        Jeff, Perhaps so, but it has grown like Topsy unnecessarily. I would expect to hold any clergyman at any time and of any Christian denomination to the high standards set out in the scriptures they... more
        Are you unaware that...? — Jeff Morey, Tue Jul 22 08:43
        
        Joyce, Are you completely unaware that many people admired Wyatt Earp? Jeff Morey
        Jeff/ unaware? — Joyce Aros, Tue Jul 22 10:39
        
        I've noticed that. Seems odd to me, but then.......there are people who feel inclined to defend others who have less of a derogatory reputation than Wyatt Earp. Is the fact that many admired Earp... more
        No, Joyce...... — Jeff Morey, Tue Jul 22 15:56
        
        Joyce, No, I would never expect you to change your opinions. Why should I? Jeff Morey
        You seem to forget, Joyce, that Jesus... — Allen Barra, Tue Jul 22 01:29
        
        spent quite a bit of time with people of low character. Peabody obviously regarded Wyatt Earp as of a better moral character than the people Earp was up against -- Billy Claiborne and his pals, for... more
        Allen, I find it amusing... — SJ Reidhead, Tue Jul 22 13:55
        
        I find it rather amusing that in order to turn Wyatt Earp into some sort of 'monster' or very bad character, or at least of someone 'worse' than the Behan bunch, his detractors must now take on... more
        Oh, but Jesus didn't know... — Allen Barra, Wed Jul 23 13:28
        
        that the Cowboys were thieves and killers, because no one ever arrested them. That means they were innocent in His eyes.
        SJ, not sure if you saw my post but... — Jeff Smith, Tue Jul 22 14:15
        
        Hi, SJ Reidhead. I am not sure if you saw my post regarding ministers who admired my g-grandfather, but basically I show that the admiration from a religious leader does not alter or change the truth ... more
        Re: Disparagement? — Larry K, Mon Jul 21 21:00
        
        Do you think Ike was ashamed of anything he did? Do you think there was any difference? How about Behan? Should he be ashamed? How about Curly Bill? Ringo? Stilwell?
        Larry K..... — Joyce Aros, Mon Jul 21 21:29
        
        Hello Larry, I am reasonably sure that all the people you mentioned seldom felt ashamed of things they did, though I really can't know, can I? But we are discussing Wyatt Earp and HE made the... more
        Re: Larry K..... — Larry K, Tue Jul 22 16:24
        
        Joyce, I seem to recall reading the "not ashamed" comment somewhere myself although, I can't remember if that was the actual wording. I do think the comment pertained to his time in AZ territory. The ... more
        Larry K/ Wyatt's comment...... — Joyce Aros, Tue Jul 22 22:47
        
        Doesn't it make you mad when you know you read something and now can't find it? I guess we all do that. Larry, If Wyatt did use the words I quoted, I would expect him to be ashamed of a number of... more
        There's that teeter-totter again... — Jeff Smith, Mon Jul 21 21:08
        
        Hi, Larry K. It's that teeter-totter effect again. When one side goes up the other automatically goes down. Everyone needs to stop seeing Tombstone and the events that occurred there in this way.... more
        Disparagement? — Joyce Aros, Mon Jul 21 19:57
        
        Jeff, Perhaps so, but it has grown like Topsy unnecessarily. I would expect to hold any clergyman at any time and of any Christian denomination to the high standards set out in the scriptures they... more
        Source? — Jeff Morey, Tue Jul 22 08:47
        
        Joyce, What is the source for the claim Wyatt said he wasn't ashamed of anything he ever did? Jeff Morey
        Jeff/ source? — Joyce Aros, Tue Jul 22 09:32
        
        Ah, Jeff! Now you have me. I was reading it just the other day again and cannot remember exactly where it is in this mess on my file cabinets. I will look for it and get back to you. I remember... more
        Joyce and Jeff, ...... — Jeff Smith, Mon Jul 21 12:28
        
        Hi, Joyce and Jeff. I do not recall reading any of Joyce's posts and coming away with the idea that she believes she is 100% correct. In fact, often times I feel she tends to down-play herself.... more
        Jeff Smith — Joyce Aros, Mon Jul 21 18:33
        
        Those are kind and thoughtful words and very much appreciated, Jeff. Thank you! Regards, Joyce
        Jeff/Peabody — Joyce Aros, Mon Jul 21 11:14
        
        ....Touche!

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