"Texas, by God"
and the
TWIN TERRITORIES
Steve Gatto
Please tell me you have more than . . .
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:09
173.224.3.166

the information in your post to prove your assertions that this Curly Bill in the 1895 article was Curly Bill Brocius and that he was also William A. Brosius of Paris, Texas. Unless you have more evidence to provide, your assertions in the post are either premature or fundamentally flawed for the following reasons:

1. You still have not produce any evidence proving William A. Brosius of Paris, Texas, was Curly Bill Brocius.

2. You have provided no evidence to prove that the Curly Bill in the 1895 article was Curly Bill Brocius.

3. You have provided no evidence to prove that the Curly Bill in the 1895 article was Curly Bill Brocius and that he was also William A. Brosius of Paris, Texas.

4. You have provided no evidence to prove that the Bill Smith who transported Cherokee Bill to jail was William A. Brosius of Paris, Texas.

In addition, your claim that the two men who aided Sheriff Lot Ravenscraft in capturing Charley Parker were detectives because the men were referred to as "officers" in an article is tenuous at best. For example, the article you cite states: "He replied with a shot from his Winchester, which killed Curly Bill's horse. The officers returned fire, and the result is that Parker now lies wounded in the shoulder, though the wound is not considered dangerous." As anyone can see the reference to "officers" was to all three men including the sheriff (who actually shot Parker) - not because the men who assisted the sheriff were detectives. Indeed, in other accounts the two men who assisted Sheriff Lot Ravenscraft in the capture of Charley Parker were identified as "deputies" of Sheriff Ravenscraft who held the office of Clark County Sheriff from 1891 to 1895.

Your attempts to connect William A. Brosius to this incident using Cherokee Bill are completely without merit as well. First, there is no proof that the "someone called Curley" who was "indicted for bringing liquor into the Indian Territory" along with a "Cherokee Bill" during 1872 (that you cite in your book on Page 178) was Curly Bill Brocius or a 14 year-old William A. Brosius. Further, your comments about Cherokee Bill illustrate why you can't assume that a man using a nickname is another man because he also used the same nickname - Crawford Goldsby aka Cherokee Bill who was arrested in 1895 was born in 1876 - he could not have been the Cherokee Bill that was indicted along with a man named "Curley" during 1872.

So the bottom line, at least in my opinion, others are free to draw their own conclusions, is that you have not provided any evidence to prove that this article supports the assertion that it is evidence that Curly Bill survived the so-called Iron Springs encounter with with Wyatt Earp in March 1882 or that this Curly Bill was William A. Brosius.

  • More new evidence of Curly Bill's survivalRandolph W. Farmer, Mon Dec 10 11:56
    Barbour County index (Medicine Lodge, Kansas) March 20, 1895: "--Woodward News: Sam Nay came to town Tuesday and gave the following account of the shooting of Charley Parker in the northwest part of... more
    • Alias P'Smith and Bockiu'sgobby git, Wed Dec 12 12:46
      RWF ... RB just beat me to that other Smith photograph because of my search ... try as I may, I can only find "former Gang member" J. B. Brosius listed in Hardin's self-serving autobiography, where... more
      • Thanks a million Gob.K.t.K., Wed Dec 12 16:57
        Hopefully I am allowed to assume that "Dr. J. B. Brosius" was older than 12, which will completely cancel out Randy boy's despicable con-game - that of foisting falsehood about him being Curly Bill's ... more
      • Hardin and BrosiusRandolph W. Farmer, Wed Dec 12 13:34
        J B Brosius and his brother Bill Brosius had old family conbectiins to the Hardin family. Their grandfather, J. B. Anderson was more of a father figure to them than their own father, George W.... more
        • Re: Hardin and BrosiusSteve Gatto, Wed Dec 12 14:41
          Didn't Doc Bockius give an interview to a newspaper reporter while in the county jail after being arrested?
          • Re: Hardin and Brosiusgobby git, Thu Dec 13 05:48
            As I still can't figure out Chronicling America ... From the Austin Daily Democratic Statesman of June 16, 1874 "[Prisoner Bockius] graduated from a medical school in Philadelphia. Otherwise, he knew ... more
            • Answer in front of your gobRandolph W. Farmer, Thu Dec 13 08:32
              "He survived the lnching of three of his companions because he was helped by a fellow Mason." J. M. Bockius was innocent, like he said. Hardin identifies J. B. Brosius as the person rescued from the... more
              • Guilt By Associationgobby git, Thu Dec 13 09:47
                RWF ... it would be impertinent for me to disagree with ANYTHING you say ... specifically the Masonic implications and the racial and political aspects inherent in your book ... except for the... more
                • Thanks, but...Randolph W. Farmer, Thu Dec 13 11:47
                  Speaking guilt by association, was J. M. Bockius found guilty of driving stolen cattle for Hardin? Uh, no, he wasn’t. Sometimes the justice system works the way it’s supposed to work. Bockius was... more
                  • Disassociationgobby git, Thu Dec 13 12:43
                    "His detention meant J. B. Brosius got off scot free" I have the book ... this isn't what is said in there ... or anywhere else ... one person, a thirteen year old, one name, J.B. Brosius ... luckily ... more
                    • I’m anonymous by accidentRandolph W. Farmer, Thu Dec 13 13:35
                      Don’t know if you picked up on it - but with Frank Anderson indicted for stealing a horse at the same place and time as J B Brosius getting hoisted up by a large man on horseback and escaping by... more
                    • Thank youAnonymous, Thu Dec 13 12:52
                      Lots of stuff gets edited out of the finished product due to space considerations. I understand that. For instance, I think I remember some stuff I had in there about Medicine Lodge, Kansas which... more
    • Please tell me you have more than . . . — Steve Gatto, Tue Dec 11 11:09
      • Bottom lineRandolph W. Farmer, Tue Dec 11 11:31
        Is that you can’t prove Bill Brosius wasn’t Curly Bill. I’ve listed numerous reasons in the past here, as well as in my book, why the only Bill Brosius or Brocius or Broscius, however you want to... more
        • Re: Bottom lineSteve Gatto, Tue Dec 11 13:58
          The sad irony is that I'll end up either having to prove that William A. Brosius was Curly Bill Brocius or prove that he could not have been Curly Bill Brocius since you're not capable of doing it. I ... more
          • Poor SteveRandolph W. Farmer, Tue Dec 11 15:58
            Steve Gatto: "The sad irony is that I'll end up either having to prove that William A. Brosius was Curly Bill Brocius or prove that he could not have been Curly Bill Brocius...." Why so sad? What... more
            • Well, I all I need to say . . . Steve Gatto, Tue Dec 11 21:06
              about the research that I have done relating to William A. Brosius of Paris, Texas, is that 15 years since the publication of my book on "Curly Bill" in 2003, and after your so-called extensive... more
              • @SteveRandolph W. Farmer, Tue Dec 11 21:09
                And you have a vested interest in an inflexible and unrealistic opinion.
                • Right . . .Steve Gatto, Tue Dec 11 21:45
                  All I'm asking for is some evidence that William A. Brosius is Curly Bill. Hell, he may actually be Curly Bill - the problem is you have not provided any evidence that he was the same man.
                  • Get realRandolph W. Farmer, Tue Dec 11 22:00
                    What you’re saying is you want a signed confession, witnessed and notarized and date and time stamped from William A. Brosius saying he was Curly Bill. You seek to impose perhaps, the standard of... more
                    • Re: Get realSteve Gatto, Tue Dec 11 22:34
                      So what your saying is that I set the bar too high? No wonder I haven't been able to confirm who Curly Bill Brocius was and where he was from all these years. So, what is the probability that a man... more
    • The fact of Curly Billy escaping death by Wyatt Earp is never the issue with me. I love it. There is no one in the Old West history field who has bad-mouthed, castigated, slandered, and disrespected... more
      • Kenny I think some of these Deputies could have used aliases depending on where they were required to go, and some had shady pasts too. I cannot understand why Sheriff Brosius would, though. The... more
        • Thanks PeterK.t.K., Wed Dec 12 08:08
          I found all kinds of stuff on Chronicling America about William C. Smith as Deputy [U.S.] Marshal. But I will not put up all the links. When reading up on the entire account, there was no need for... more
        • @Peter LoveRandolph W. Farmer, Tue Dec 11 19:54
          I did find an indictment in Indian Territory for “Curly” and “Cherokee Bill” but will concede it could have been a different person than Crawford Goolsby. It was more important to demonstrate that... more
    • Curly Bill's HorseRichard Lapidus, Tue Dec 11 07:32
      If this is the Curly we know from the Tombstone saga, how many horses of his were shot?
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