Sia☺giah
How many times and how many ways do I have to tell you that
Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:28pm
64.222.145.22

I believe that it's basically an EMOTIONAL ISSUE on BOTH sides???


NO ONE will be impacted in a tangible, touchable, life changing way no matter WHAT they do with the monuments... (other than if they are moved, SOMEONE will earn money to move them)...


That is the gist of my point here...


BECAUSE it is largely an EMOTIONAL ISSUE, on both sides, the emotions involved are NOT going to just "go away" and MUST be addressed in some fashion to resolve this issue... So, both sides need to make their case for each of the monuments as far as where they stand, what they represent in context due to where they stand, who they are of, what they are commemorating, and what their symbolic nature is to the community at large...


Naturally, it is NOT going to be a "national discussion" on each individual monument, but a regional one... The people IMPACTED by their presence in the community and local communities...


Monuments like the ones at your Virginia military college have direct, historical significance to the college, itself, and its current and former students... Memorials to people who taught and studied there are hardly symbols of something else, even if they also have a connection to the Civil War too... There's no question in my mind that it is REASONABLE for them to remain in place as the are not and never were intended as symbols of racism, intimidation, nor pro-slavery...


Monuments in random places of Jefferson Davis or Robert E. Lee, aside of their respective home towns or other historical significance (such as a specific battle), do NOT have direct association with the communities where they stand, but simply serve as symbols of a lost cause, The Confederacy, which, in all truth was a traitorous rebellion against America...


I'm NOT demonizing any of the participants in the Civil War on the South, that is NOT how I feel, I am simply stating the obvious historical fact that they LOST the war and that monuments to the Confederacy should have never been erected in the first place... They only served to keep the divisions of the Civil War alive... The Union CHOSE not to demonize the Confederate soldiers nor their generals, going only after Jefferson Davis and his cabinet, most of whom escaped to Europe so were never punished. They only imprisoned Jefferson Davis for two years, then allowed him to live the remainder of his life as a free man in the place of his choice... That was intended to HEAL divisions and bring north and south back together...


So, WHY did the south continue to promote and encourage symbols of the Confederacy, particularly given how slavery was such an integral part of the issues separating North & South... Not the CONCEPT of slavery as a practice, but that slavery held the KEY to Southern prosperity and its desire to break free and ally with Britain, which ultimately would have severely damaged the North... It was a war over regional SURVIVAL more than over slavery, in spite of slavery being the single issue that spelled success or failure financially... Clearly, it was COMMON in that time to view blacks as sub-human and unworthy of full citizenship or actual equality to whites. Those who kept idolizing the Civil War kept believing those things deep in their hearts. The proof is the highly visible KKK down south and the mistreatment of blacks all over America... not JUST in the south...


Erecting monuments 50+ years AFTER the war ended during a time when blacks were doing fairly well for themselves, pushing for greater social and legislative prominence in communities in the south where they frequently outnumbered whites PLUS the growing power of the KKK was behind MANY of the monuments erected across the south in the early 20th century... and another flurry of monuments followed in the early 1960s, at a time when the Civil Rights movement was growing exponentially and had found favor in the Kennedy and later the Johnson administration... That they ALSO coincided with 50th and 100th "anniversaries" is a smoke screen for why they were really erected and the dedication speeches made (that ARE readily available) prove that... ) During that time, attitudes in the north began to radically change towards blacks with the Civil Rights movement making people more aware of the blatant inequality and mistreatment of blacks, particularly down south. By then, unpunished lynching was common in the south, yet all but unheard of in the north... Widespread discrimination existed everywhere, but not anywhere near the degree in the southern states associated with the Confederacy, perhaps because the "cause" was constantly kept "alive" in the minds of everyone there... The flurry of building monuments in the south didn't HELP that any and, in fact, can be traced directly to attempts at intimidation based on commemoration speeches... That was quite similar to the burning of crosses on the home & business lawns of blacks...


Sure, SOME weren't for that reason... The ones that will likely remain in place, that is... In Jefferson Davis' hometown, there's NO reason to remove his monument... It BELONGS there... But it does NOT belong in other towns and other states because that makes it OBVIOUS that they are monuments to the causes & reasons for the Civil War and serve ONLY to promote keeping divisions alive...


Your emotions regarding this issue are completely out of control... Thus far, I've not seen you exhibit a SINGLE, reasonable argument in favor of keeping them aside of the one regarding your former college... and even that was a tirade... But, at least it gave LEGITIMATE REASONS for why they belong there and why removing them would be a BAD thing... It WON'T impact anyone's life either way, of course not, but how folks FEEL about them remaining far outweighs claims by those offended by them simply because of their historical significance to the college, itself... So, I dismiss complaints against them as OTT emotional reactions that are not willing to listen to reason...


Unless YOU begin to put the emotions aside and actually LISTEN to arguments pro & con, letting go of the profane arguments and name-calling, I guarantee you NO ONE will listen to your argument in favor of your college's monuments... Be smart... Use the argument that swayed me to your viewpoint and LEAVE OUT the ugliness and name calling... If you do that, you just may prevail... Fail to remove the hatred from your argument and you're just more noise...

  • ...improved if the monuments remain where they are. Done. Fine. Let's go with that. Next question would be -- will anyone's life be improved by REMOVING the monuments? No one has been able to tell me ... more
    • Why?wondering, Fri Aug 25 3:07pm
      Why would attempting to remove those monuments get people killed? Or divide people? Why should anyone care about those monuments being removed any more than people care about them staying? Why?... more
    • How many times and how many ways do I have to tell you that — Sia☺giah, Fri Aug 25 2:28pm