Sprout
It would not surprise me... And it won't even take a law...
Thu Oct 5, 2017 9:43am
192.86.118.14

The ATF's technical branch is the organization that evaluates and classifies products. They have made some screwy decisions over the years including saying that if you hold something a different way you are 'modifying' it and therefore subject to NFA restrictions... That if you hold a forearm brace against your cheek it is legal, but if you hold it against your shoulder you have 'modified' it to be a stock and created an NFA item. They did eventually walk that silliness back, but it does IMO show that they are as subject to political pressure and political correctness as any agency.

So, it would not surprise me at all to see the ATF release another letter on the bump fire stocks pretty quickly. It could be as simple as saying that USING a bump fire stock in that mode makes the device a machine gun. That would leave owners with them already installed not subject to immediate criminal charges, but unable to use them for their designed purpose. Or, the ATF could take the stance that installing them makes the device regulated under the NFA, which would leave their possession legal but would relegate them to sitting in a cabinet somewhere. The farthest reach the ATF could go would be to re-classify them as a machine gun part and then even possession would be considered constructive intent and could be prosecutable. IMO the hard part would be what to do from there. I think the LIKELY result would be NOTHING. I don't see the ATF having the will, or even the resources to try and hunt down all of those parts. IMO what is especially interesting about these possibilities is that they require no action on the part of the legislature or the courts. They are purely administrative in nature.

Now if someone wants to pass a LAW banning them. I suspect what will probably happen would be some sort of law banning the SALE, as there is quite a bit of precedent in the US that banning the possession of stuff that folks previously possessed LEGALLY is problematic at best. I think how to word such a law could be very challenging if one wants an actual effect. Certainly if all one needs is a political GESTURE of "doing something", then banning products by name will do the trick, though it won't effect other products or other technologies. One could ban 'bump firing' as an ACTIVITY, which would cover both formal products designed to do it, as well as the older techniques like the 'belt loop' method. Damn near unenforceable, but would cover the political end.

Certainly fully auto fire has it's effectiveness. Otherwise the military would not invest in belt-fed machine guns.

  • No skin off my butt, as I can't imagine having any interest in such a device, but I agree that banning it likely won't increase safety all that much. Still, the Las Vegas shooting shows that there... more
    • It would not surprise me... And it won't even take a law... — Sprout, Thu Oct 5 9:43am
    • Why make it cheap and easy?Jeeves, Thu Oct 5 9:36am
      Sales of bump stocks is WAY up because people are worried that they won't be available for long.
      • I have little doubt...Poppet, Thu Oct 5 9:50pm
        ...that 3D printer plans for these are already spreading like a virus. I don't in the least object to banning these. They're a cheesy end-around the intent of the regulation of automatic weapons. But ... more
        • A breath of fresh reasoning. (nm)PH👏🏾👏🏾EY, Fri Oct 6 10:43am
        • Behavior modificationPikes, Thu Oct 5 10:30pm
          No policy about guns resolves misuse. If one did the trick, it would leap out and grab out attention. Instead, the same people propose the same old tired arguments, insisting they will work, when... more
          • Yes, an example is dinasour Jeff Sessions. (nm)PH👏🏾👏🏾EY, Fri Oct 6 10:44am
          • I'm at a bit of a loss on this one, I fear.Poppet, Fri Oct 6 10:42am
            Perhaps the answer will indeed be in a scientific approach, based on brain chemistry modification. Obviously identifying candidates for such treatment is at least as challenging as developing the... more
            • And what would be the vector?PH🔎🔎EY, Fri Oct 6 6:27pm
              Our atmosphere. The air we breathe. I think a candidate for changing thebrain chemtrailistry has to be nano-top dog American Element Corporation. What a company!
            • Obviously their spirits collaborated to bring us Donald the Menace. Implementation of any neuroscience intervention, be is surgical, chemical or genetic therapy first requires identification of... more
              • For years I have blamed these ills PH👁🔎👁EY, Fri Oct 6 12:46pm
                on the Mickey Mouse Club. Howdy Doody was just the icing on the many layered concoction. The shock was when they all were "killed" in a bus or train wreck. Where was Spock and Seuss when I needed... more
              • And what is 'normal'? Sprout, Fri Oct 6 12:39pm
                Even if we could both define and quantify the brain down to the level that we could analyze and predict behaviors of that organ, AND we develop the tools to modify it to alter the desired outcome, to ... more
            • Especially since most of us really don't careSprout, Fri Oct 6 10:48am
              about the opinions of those OUTSIDE of our social groups. And our social groups GENERALLY match our ideology on issues like firearms. If some random stranger tells me to get rid of my guns, he can... more
              • Excellent observation.Poppet, Fri Oct 6 3:28pm
                There are certainly exceptions, though, although I'd say they only go so far. I am, as you know, quite liberal in my politics...a socialist, in fact. In the overall scheme of things on the left, my... more
            • At, the good old days. Lobotomies. (nm)PH👻👻EY, Fri Oct 6 10:45am
      • Always happens...Sprout, Thu Oct 5 9:47am
        Threaten to ban something and those even barely CONSIDERING the item will likely make the purchase just so they CAN have it down the road if they really decide they want it. And especially in the... more
        • And banning that which playedPH🔎👁🔎EY, Thu Oct 5 9:54am
          no role in the massacre. Becayse authority allowed these shooters to set up their lairs in a hotel, then really, the gun control rubric is really nothing but pure BS. Though it is very likely part of ... more
          • Having qualified expert with the M60...Sprout, Thu Oct 5 10:22am
            and having qualified expert and competed with M16's and AR platform rifles... And having played with the bump fire stock being discussed, I can say from a fair bit of experience I HIGHLY doubt that... more
      • Bump stocks? A term unfamiliar to me.PH👁EY, Thu Oct 5 9:47am
        Are you saying a bump stock is one which has an uptick in sales? And you are referring to guns. Yes, good. People ought to arm themselves. And the AR 15 is about the only real protection, that and a... more
        • of the story. A bump fire stock is believed to have been the device used by the Las Vegas shooter to increase his rate of fire. Given that, it is totally unsurprising that there is discussion of... more
          • Apparently that is where your fixation lies. Because there were at least three shooters, maybe a fourth. Come on, stop parroting those lying bastards.
            • declaring as FACT that you DO know that the whole thing was a "false flag" operation ??? WTF ??? While I suspect that you automatically decided that it wasn't a real attack by a lone shooter and... more
              • Yes, this Vegas massacre is a false flag op.PH👁🔎👁EY, Thu Oct 5 3:50pm
                And whether or not a device is fitted to a semi- automatic or not is beside the point. But that is an alledged accusation. So where to you get I have a fixation? I merely post evidence off of IBDY... more
                • My "ILK" wants to simplify in tandem outrageous claims????? ... Sia☺giah, Fri Oct 6 12:58am
                  WOW. My "great insight" comes from NOT making "snap judgments" that something is a false flag op without having read up on EVERYTHING I could get my hands on FIRST. All I said to you is that I cannot ... more
                  • No reason necessary.Poppet, Fri Oct 6 10:31am
                    "I don't see what possible reason you have for so rudely responding to my observations." All the reason needed is that this is what conspiracy junkies do : they flip their shit at anyone who doesn't... more
                    • "Clown"?PH😡😡EY, Fri Oct 6 11:26am
                      This is not dignified to be referring to a contributor as a clown. I find SPROUTS invictive to be less of an insult. There is no theory where there are the facts. Without posting a plethora of links... more
                      • Spare me your crocodile tears, clown.Poppet, Fri Oct 6 1:56pm
                        As is typical of conspiracy junkies, you rudely insult those who disagree with you. That leaves you precisely zero room for whingeing about being insulted in return. Zero . If you don't like it, feel ... more
                        • Do you know of a place for PH⚔⚔EY, Fri Oct 6 6:32pm
                          people like me? Are there other free and open forums easy to enter no muss no fuss. I hate registering for anything. I would welcome a place that can handle the "buggering."
                          • IssuesPikes, Fri Oct 6 11:08pm
                            We can agree to disagree and remain respectful, civil, and even cordial. I don't know if we do that better or worse than other communities. Really not concerned with that, or image. I respond to... more
                          • But you already post on both Ken and Mondo's boards, both of which are more-or-less anything goes.
                  • To which "reputable media" do you refer?PH👁🔎👁EY, Fri Oct 6 9:54am
                    It is inconsequential to the narrative as I see it. Whether it's a Ar 15 or a AR 47, obviously automatic weaponry was utilized. I think we can all agree on that. And whether either is capable of... more
              • Has my question been answered?PH👻🔎👻EY, Thu Oct 5 3:37pm
                When my question is answered then I will take on your rant. But it's matters not! Bro you think whatever this is about bump stock changes a video? Or eye witnesses?
            • Doubtful....Sprout, Thu Oct 5 10:39am
              I listened to the audio myself. And I personally hear no evidence of multiple shooters engaging targets simultaneously. It is theoretically possible PURELY from the audio data that one shooter... more
              • Let's not belabor the M60 question.PH🔎👁🔎EY, Thu Oct 5 11:12am
                It's a sidebar, at best a small lead, at worse a diversion. Whether you want to accept it or not, there was at least three shooters firing at a crowd quite some distance away. That distance might... more
    • Sorry to be sketchy, but a gun with a '60' designationPH🔎👁🔎EY, Thu Oct 5 9:35am
      is being assessed by gun experts are the likely weapons used by the shooters. The modified AR 15 seems to not match up to the audio and rapidity of the firing flashes. But even though it's Friday and ... more
      • Nope....Sprout, Thu Oct 5 9:55am
        Wrong caliber... I have used the M60 fairly extensively and what I heard on audio does not match it at all. What the audio DOES match pretty well is an AR type platform with a bump fire stock. It... more