Sia☺giah
It's a very sticky situation, for sure.
Sun Dec 3, 2017 10:36am
64.222.184.185

There are valid arguments on BOTH SIDES. The baker certainly had his "conscience" to consider, but, my understanding is that he was VERY polite to them and offered alternative shops where they could have what they wanted without an issue.

IMHO, he behaved civilly and decently with that behavior, in spite of my complete disagreement with his view on gay marriage. He has a right to his opinions too.

YES, he also displayed some intolerance that wasn't especially pretty, but he did so in a manner that asked for understanding of HIS deeply held convictions and he actually tried to help the couple find what they wanted from others who didn't oppose gay marriage.

There MUST be some middle ground here. The man ALSO doesn't make Halloween cakes because it offends his deeply held convictions. That he will make gay themed cakes of ANYTHING but weddings, clearly shows that he was NOT trying to discriminate against gays, per se, but ONLY that he does not agree with gay MARRIAGE and respectfully declined to make that kind of wedding cake.

The gay couple absolutely behaved ABOMINABLY. They surely felt upset and hurt that the cake designer did not wish to create a gay wedding cake, but REALLY? SUE HIM when he was polite, cordial, clearly didn't discriminate against gays in general, and offered them alternatives who WOULD do exactly what they'd wanted.

A possible solution COULD have been to make them a cake but let THEM put the two male figures on the cake themselves.

I don't know how I'd rule on this one. The cake designer was seriously injured by their lawsuit, FAR IN EXCESS OF THEIR CLAIMED INJURY by his refusal. They had MANY OPTIONS available to them and eventually (presumably) DID get what they wanted elsewhere, but HE is still paying for following his principles. The law is not always the "right thing" in spite of it being the legal ruling. IMHO, the RIGHT THING would be for the gay couple to behave equally civil to him since he CLEARLY wasn't a gay basher given that he'd make cakes for ANY GAY CELEBRATION aside of gay MARRIAGE.

To me, that does say volumes in WHAT this man was standing up for, his honest religious beliefs, and NOT using them as a cover for blatant discrimination against everything "gay". He was simply opposing one small aspect of it, exercising his "free speech" from his POV, but being reasonable and accommodating in all others because it WASN'T about being gay.

It's true that which side is more, or less, likable isn't a valid determination of who legally wins, but it sure is a valid determination as to who "ETHICALLY" should win.

While I support Gay Marriage 100%, in this specific situation, I'm on the side of the baker. He was actually a Christian who was on the SIDE of gays being treated equally by society and only drew the line where his religion "draws the line" ie Gay Marriage. He could have been a powerful ally to gays because he was already on board with gays being treated well and fairly. Let his one objection stand and fight that battle another day. Now? FORGET IT. They set back relations between churches and gays by decades with this lawsuit instead.

In the OTHER situation where a baker refused to make ANYTHING for a gay couple and who clearly used his religion to discriminate against ALL GAYS, without exception, making it ABOUT being gay, plain and simple. THEY deserved to be slammed for that.

  • Baking a Cake Is Not Constitutionally Protected Speech But the gay couple who took Masterpiece Cakeshop to court behaved abominably. The conversation about a cake lasted less than a minute but will... more
    • The way I see it...Truthteller, Wed Dec 6 3:14pm
      If baking a wedding cake endorses homosexuality, then voting for a pedophile is endorsing pedophilia. And yet that is what many in Alabama are preparing to do. This country is essentially finished as ... more
    • My views on thisEx-News Junkie, Tue Dec 5 10:04pm
      Since nobody knows what causes LGBTQ(whatever alphabet soup) behavior or how to fix it, I think it is a waste of energy to discriminate against them, especially since they are not a particularly... more
      • Good Faith...Amadeus, Wed Dec 6 2:52pm
        A standard service is one thing, i.e. a generic wedding cake. I think we agree that if you sell to one, you must sell to all. A custom service is another. But the thing is, the baker would be... more
    • Because they "can."Pikes, Sun Dec 3 10:43pm
      Just because one can, doesn't mean one should. There is enough tension in this subject to energize humanity forever. The wind up key doesn't need more turning.
    • It's a very sticky situation, for sure. — Sia☺giah, Sun Dec 3 10:36am
      • The Man Doesn't Make Halloween Cakes...Amadeus, Tue Dec 5 9:18pm
        ...for anybody. That is not a problem. But when you sell to one, you must sell to all. If he wants to sell wedding cakes, then he must sell wedding cakes to all. If his faith precludes that, and his... more
      • This Is About a wedding Cake, NotMerlin, Sun Dec 3 11:20am
        ;-) I don't buy that Christianity "draws the line" at baking a cake that is not part of the wedding ceremony will be eaten at a banquet hall, etc. after they are married. Mr. Phillips decided to make ... more
        • ALL wedding cakes are eaten in halls Sia☺giah, Sun Dec 3 6:38pm
          Personally, I think the entire thing is totally ridiculous as I don't believe that anyone should have an issue with baking a cake for anyone else and see NO REASON why anyone gives a crap who marries ... more
      • but I am wondering if that solution was offered to the couple... that they could have purchased and put their own male figures on the cake themselves? It seems that would have been a very reasonable... more
    • So many things can be taken to extremes.wondering, Sun Dec 3 10:27am
      Many Christians are supposedly (according to their religious principles and edicts) against premarital sex, divorce and remarriage, etc. But how many actively discriminate against unmarried... more
      • celebration cakes for anything but "weddings". IMHO, that WAS protected free speech ETHICALLY, even though not legally. He did not seek to discriminate against gays. He had many gay customers. Gay... more
        • I'm not so sure about that.wondering, Wed Dec 6 1:00am
          When did he ever make gay or gay themed celebration cakes? A birthday cake for a gay person is not a gay-themed cake. Maybe he was polite and didn't overtly show hatred toward gay people, but I... more