YOU Brought Up Hillary...
Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:29pm (XFF:

Not me.

You spend a lot of effort defending Trump.

You spend a lot of effort attacking those who point out problems with Trump and his administration.

Trump hasn't done anything that deserves praise yet - with the possible exception of his bizzarely effective work with North Korea. He inherited an economy that was going like gang-busters, and had trouble for most of his first year getting anything passed that would affect. The tax scam that passed has resulted in a short term high, but already, the deficit and debt are soaring, and it has become clear that it was what we liberals (and 99% of economists) said it was - a thinly veiled money grab by the rich. Over 75% of corporations didn't pass along their tax break to their employees. And of those that did, most only offered nominal breaks to a small selection of employees. Corporations used most of the money to buy back stock, drive up dividends, power the performance goals for board level leadership, and pocket the bonuses.

And the bill is going to come due. It's like the economy is in a giant bubble. Economists warned of this.

Other than that, he's managed to roll back environmental protections so that we can pollute more freely.

He's got us in a stupid tariff war. His supporters don't seem to understand that we are the ones who pay the price.

He's needlessly insulting our allies.

He's pulled us out of leadership positions in important arenas.

You brought her up, and I definitely didn't want her as president, but I can't believe that Hillary would have been a worse president than Comrade Trump.

Trump is a trainwreck. He has put people into cabinet positions who are clearly not qualified for the job with the seeming intent of rendering the department nonfunctional.

I understand that some people have a lot of personal hatred for Hillary. I really don't understand why. She's a politician. But on a scale of 1 to Awful, she's not egregious. I didn't like her politics (for the same reason I don't particularly align with the DNC), but I had no personal problem with her.

As an example on the other side of the aisle, Mitt Romney is someone where I disagreed with a lot of his politics, but I liked him personally. Rubio, I think, has potential. I think he needs a little more time and experience. I actually thought the elder Bush did a pretty good job, and I liked Reagan (back then, I wasn't into politics, so that wasn't as much of an issue). I think I would have really liked Colin Powell if he had run.

Anyway, it's better to have discussions than insult slinging matches. It's better to discuss substantive topics. I don't mind admitting error. It is better than NOT admitting error and then having to suffer repeatedly as others continue pointing out the error.


  • I've never been "all in" with Trump.SES, Tue Sep 25 12:03pm
    I don't know how many times I've said that I was "all-in" for Rubio, but once Rubio was out, I grudgingly got behind Trump. Why? Because Hillary was VASTLY worse, in my opinion. And that opinion has... more
    • YOU Brought Up Hillary... — Amadeus, Tue Sep 25 2:29pm
      • ..."going like gang-busters"? That's
      • North Korea is building ~20 nukes a year...HeavyHemi, Tue Sep 25 2:32pm
        What success? Destroying facilities they no longer need for testing?
        • It seems that it wasn't that long ago thatSprout, Wed Sep 26 10:06am
          you were adamant that there was no proof that North Korea had nukes at all...
        • I Always Thought...Amadeus, Tue Sep 25 2:37pm
          ...that our previous strategy of sanctions had proven unsuccessful. All we did was hurt the people, which the regime was able to use as a tool to galvanize them against us. That is the opposite of... more
          • when dealing with the USA. He CANNOT be trusted. That is the only certainty we have when dealing with N.K. Aside of that, sure, try something new to see if it works. But buying into his song & dance... more
          • 'Kim has announced...."HeavyHemi, Tue Sep 25 3:12pm
            He also murdered his close family...perhaps even after announcing to them....I don't not expect sane or logic from that regime. I think he'll do whatever keeps him in power as should anyone who has... more
            • We Are Not The World PoliceAmadeus, Tue Sep 25 3:22pm
              That is another discussion altogether. I don't approve of Kim, but he is the leader of North Korea. So, we have to suck it up and deal with him and his regime. Amadeus
              • one cannot expect anything "normal" out of him and to show that he's absolutely NEVER to be trusted to keep his word. He'll murder anyone in his way, including family members. He starves his own... more
                • *shrug*Amadeus, Wed Sep 26 4:27pm
                  My point remains. When he took power, he gave a speech to his nation about how the nation would direct all its effort toward getting their nuclear missile program accelerated. Just recently, he gave... more
                  • "We have to deal with him as he is"HeavyHemi, Wed Sep 26 9:41pm
                    Indeed my precise point in citing murdering his Uncle and assorted other 'threat'. Apparently the disagreement, is I and apparently Sia believe he's a murderous despot...based on...well the fact that ... more
                    • Murder Most FoulAmadeus, Wed Sep 26 10:04pm
                      You know, I was preparing a response on the impact of the murder of his uncle on my perception of Kim as "evil" and on the variations in type of evil that we see. But I wanted some context, because I ... more
                  • I don't disagree with your major points... Sia☺giah, Wed Sep 26 5:30pm
                    I was only trying to explain where HE was coming from is all.
              • I simply disagree with you in trusting Kim and stated succinctly why. I didn't say you 'approved' of Kim. Obviously we have to deal with "what is". It is so odd reading replies that have really... more
                • Not Again...Amadeus, Tue Sep 25 10:31pm
                  HeavyHemi 'Kim has announced...." Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:12pm He also murdered his close family...perhaps even after announcing to them....I don't not expect sane or logic from that regime.... more
                  • And there you go again.HeavyHemi, Tue Sep 25 10:40pm
                    Holy cow, you're nearly pathological to go to that much trouble to INSIST I DO NOT MEAN EXACTLY AS LITTLE AS I POSTED. Apparently you believe I'm party do some detailed debate you're having in your... more
                    • There's no need to drag it out. Obviously, there's an undercurrent of conflict and communication issues. Please try to put aside the negative expectations and look for the good? You could have some... more
                      • I'm Aware Of It Now...Amadeus, Tue Sep 25 11:12pm
                        And believe me, I'm not interested in a repeat. Amadeus
                        • Neither was I...HeavyHemi, Tue Sep 25 11:26pm
                          But I'd say your paragraph after paragraph would argue otherwise, again. I don't know is this you trying to paint me as the bad guy...again. Pfffft.
                          • other. You come at topics with extremely different ways of expressing yourself that seem to confuse and annoy the other. That's really sad because I think you are both extremely smart and you both... more
                            • I thought you and I were pretty precise and clear.HeavyHemi, Wed Sep 26 12:57am
                              He said "Kim has actually announced to his government and people that they are going to turn their efforts toward rebuilding their economy and away from their nuclear missile program. I think he'll... more
                              • For Pete's Sake...Amadeus, Wed Sep 26 1:07am
                                I hadn't even HEARD about his uncle. I thought you were referring to some other incident a couple of years ago. YOUR INTELLIGENCE IS NOT BEING INSULTED. STOP WEARING YOUR HEART ON YOUR SLEEVE. Let it ... more
                          • Peace (nm)Amadeus, Wed Sep 26 12:27am
                    • *boggle*Amadeus, Tue Sep 25 10:53pm
                      Look. I'm not even having the same discussion as you seem to be having. You're welcome to have your discussion. I'm not trying to change your mind. After the effort I put into our last... more
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