They Screwed Up Badly...
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:09pm (XFF: allowing a Brexit referendum with no details. They should have settled on the "divorce agreement" and then put that to the referendum. OR, they should have had the referendum on starting the process to come up with the "divorce agreement" that would also be put to a referendum.

But as it is, May and the Parliament feel that they must Brexit or they will have abrogated the expressed will of the people. But they can't agree on how to Brexit. A few have offered ideas on how they could put the idea up for another referendum, but most say that would also abrogate the expressed will of the people.

I think it's all in the marketing. They should call an emergency referendum and simply be honest with the people.

"People of the UK, you wanted your government to listen to you, and we did. We held a referendum on the issue of whether to leave the EU and you told us that it was your will that we do so. Since that time, we have worked hard to reach an agreement with the EU to exit our arrangement in such a way that will not cause lasting harm and expense to our nation. Our attempts have failed. We remain a nation divided, and therefore a government divided, over how to achieve the goals you have set for us. Given the dire nature of the situation, it would be foolish to proceed without putting this final decision back into the hands of those who started the process. The people. There is no agreement. Our exit from the EU will be a hard exit with no arrangements. This will cause a myriad of economic problems for the UK as well as social problems. We are not sure that this what the people intended when they voted several years ago their intent to leave the EU. With that in mind, we are calling this supplemental referendum. It is not meant to invalidate the previous referendum or override it. It is meant to complete it. The previous referendum did not stipulate the arrangements under which the UK would leave the EU, and many of those who made their decision, to exit or remain, did so under various assumptions about what those arrangements would be. No assumptions are necessary any longer. Therefore, the people should be empowered to confirm their decision or set it aside by direct vote. This will be the end of the Brexit issue. There will be no further negotiations. If the referendum passes, the UK will leave the EU with no arrangements and no deals. If the referendum does not pass, the UK will terminate the exit process and remain a part of the EU. There will be no further attempts to exit the EU for 10 years."

Frame the second referendum as the only way to preserve democracy rather than as a way to undermine it.

They made the initial mistake because of arrogance. The Remainers were so certain that they would win that they were sloppy. They need to be super careful now, or they'll cut their economy off at the knees.


  • May's government hammered on Brexitgreenman, Tue Jan 15 3:00pm
    Over 200 vote loss? Wow, that's bad. Will there be new elections, I have to wonder? Looks like they'll permit a no-confidence debate...... more
    • But survived today's no confidence vote.Poppet, Wed Jan 16 5:04pm
      And that surprised me...
      • It did me, toogreenman, Wed Jan 16 7:52pm
        ...although I suppose it was a case of her allies (nearly all Tories and DUP) not wanting to go all the way with their opposition to her. Fascinating how this happened and how it's playing out -... more
        • Nobody Is Brave Enough To Pick Up The Ball...Amadeus, Wed Jan 16 9:26pm
          ...and own it. I still think the only sane way forward is another referendum that specifically lays out that the two choices are staying in the EU and crashing out without a deal. Amadeus
          • Own the ball! lolgreenman, Thu Jan 17 10:57am
            But seriously, they're all now (on the opposition) saying they want 'no deal' off the table, apparently trying to avoid just that sort of choice. But when you can't come up with a BETTER choice,... more
            • I Understand May's Position...Amadeus, Thu Jan 17 11:30am
              She is looking out, incredulously, at these MPs and saying, "Do you really not understand that there is no negotiating? The EU has all the power. We agreed to this when we signed on. We can't demand... more
              • I knowgreenman, Thu Jan 17 11:57am
                She's not even a Brexiteer, if I understand correctly, but is determined to implement what she thought was the 'will of the people.' And yet her own party can't even get behind her, and the nation's... more
    • They Screwed Up Badly... — Amadeus, Wed Jan 16 2:09pm
        • I Believe So...Amadeus, Thu Jan 17 1:16am
          Simply ignoring the referendum is apparently legally possible , although there are lots of reasons why they don't want to do that. That's why I think they need to carefully frame putting up another... more
      • Inclined to agreegreenman, Wed Jan 16 4:41pm
        I'd heard someone suggest a new referendum that would have similarly clear and distinct language about what they were voting for, not just 'leave' or 'remain,' pretty much all they were given the... more
    • She's been hammered repeatedly over BrexitSia☺giah, Tue Jan 15 5:44pm
      and barely survived it by the skin of her teeth. Not surprised that this has happened. Still sad though. I don't think that she deserves what she's getting.
      • Perhaps notgreenman, Tue Jan 15 6:01pm
        ...although Brexit is, itself, a stupid idea, she's loyally tried to push through some version of what the referendum showed to be the 'will of the people.' And she's gotten scarce thanks for it, and ... more
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