OLD WEST ROGUES

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It's because I actualy think and do original research . Not like you that just accepts what anyone wants to write about. And copies it off the internet. I am not the only one who has come to this conclusion.

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Today in Wild Bunch history — Vince Garcia, Fri Aug 10 5:39am

Aug. 10, 1904. Butch details their livestock holdings in a letter to Matilda Davis (Elza’s mother-in-law) back in Utah.
- August 10, 1902 letter provenance — Daniel Buck, Sun Aug 12 5:08am
  
  I do not have any reason to doubt the authenticity of the August 10, 1902 letter. The provenance is excellent and predates the career of Utah forger Mark Hofmann. A photocopy of the letter was... more
- - Dan — Pat, Sun Aug 12 9:21am
    
    The letter may not be by Hoffman but it is doubtful that it is written by Butch. The only provenance you give for this letter is that it was donated by Harvey Murdock.It did not even come to light... more
  - - Idle questions are not evidence (nm) — Daniel Buck, Sun Aug 12 10:06am
    - - They are when they go unanswered! (nm) — Pat, Sun Aug 12 10:13am
- correction: Aug. 10, 1902, not '04 (nm) — Vince Garcia, Sat Aug 11 11:25am
- Butch didn't write that letter — Pat, Fri Aug 10 10:00am
  
  It's a forgery.
- - What is the evidence of forgery? — Vince Garcia, Fri Aug 10 3:34pm
    
    Or are you presuming it must be a forgery because you do not believe Butch went to SA? thx
  - - questionable at best — Pat, Sat Aug 11 9:24am
      
      Using logic there is a lot of problems with this letter. Mainly Butch would not have written to Matilda as her daughter was divorced from Elzy for several years and there was a lot of animosity over... more
    - - Long on speculation — Vince Garcia, Sat Aug 11 12:04pm
        
        Your post is rather long on speculation more than actual fact. Past that, the list of people who apparently accept that letter as legit, and cite it in their writings (apart from legions of secondary ... more
      - Vince — Pat, Sat Aug 11 12:51pm
        
        Have you ever had an original thought? And no Dan does not accept it.
        Re: Vince — Vince Garcia, Sat Aug 11 1:02pm
        
        I suggest you go ask that of Bill Bentenson and Donna Ernst. For some reason you want to focus on me, and demean me for relying on the accepted history of Butch CAssidy. I suggest you go rag on... more
        Vince — Pat, Sat Aug 11 1:17pm
        
        You began this attack on me and when I turned the tables you run crying to mama. If you don't like what I post simply ignore it. But if you want to engage me then I will give back as good as I get.... more
    - Funny — Pat, Fri Aug 10 5:30pm
    - - Pat's "original research" — Vince Garcia, Fri Aug 10 7:19pm
        
        Why am I not surprised you offered not one bit of proof the letter is a fake? And this brilliant methodology of "original research" of yours is how you have concluded: Butch never robbed hardly... more
      - Consider this too — Pat, Sat Aug 11 11:19am
        
        The propaganda machine spread the news that Butch had gone to SA. There is no proof whatsoever that this is true. They also said Logan went to SA. So were they right about either one? Follow the... more
        Worth reading — Pat, Sat Aug 11 9:55am
        
        You may want to read the the article in the Idaho Statesman, Nov 18, 1897. It is a long article about the gangs in the Powder Springs, Baggs, and Craig area. It lists many names of outlaws and the... more
        You may also want to read this article — Jack, Sun Aug 12 8:07am
        
        Publication: Steamboat Pilot (Steamboat Springs, Routt County); Date: Aug 10, 1898; Section: Front page; Page: 1 JEFF DUNBAR OUTLAW Ending of a Career Notorious in Criminal Annals. WAS AN OULAW BY... more
        JEFF DUNBAR OUTLAW — Jerry Lobdill, Mon Aug 13 2:54am
        
        Jack, Thanks for posting this article. I wish there was more of this kind of post on the subject on this board and less childish sniping. If this article is legit and credible it seems to imply that... more
        Re: JEFF DUNBAR OUTLAW — Jack, Mon Aug 13 12:10pm
        
        Jerry & Dan, The Jeff Dunbar articles were probably all penned by Willis George Emerson, who was known for sensationalizing. I’ve heard a lot of stories about Jeff Dunbar, none were positive. As far... more
        George R. Caldwell — Jack, Wed Aug 15 6:56pm
        
        August 1897 George R. Caldwell correspondent of the Denver News wrote Bandits of the Border. Similar versions same article, November 1897 The Idaho Daily Statesman, Organized Highwaymen Terrorize... more
        Munchausen borrowing from Marco Polo — Daniel Buck, Thu Aug 16 8:38am
        
        Thanks, Jack. Helpful information. Willis George Emerson rewriting George R. Caldwell sounds like Baron von Munchausen borrowing from Marco Polo. By the way, I ran Emerson's name thru a two more... more
        Thanks Dan (nm) — Jack, Thu Aug 16 9:30am
        
        Willis George Emerson — Daniel Buck, Mon Aug 13 4:11pm
        
        Jack, Thanks, good summary. I'd forgotten about Emerson. His byline, "Willis George Emerson, Grand Encampment, Wyo, Aug. 6, 1898," is barely readable on a splotchy, microfilm copy of his August 7,... more
        Re: Willis George Emerson — Vince Garcia, Tue Aug 14 12:43pm
        
        I used to own a copy of THE SMOKY GOD years ago.
        Amen Jerry and Thanks Jack! (nm) — Leah, Mon Aug 13 10:06am
        
        Jeff Dunbar — Daniel Buck, Mon Aug 13 5:35am
        
        Jerry, Jeff Dunbar and as well William "Mike" Dunbar, reportedly his brother, who might have been linked to the Winnamucca holdup, are mentioned briefly in Ernst (2009), Burton (2012). Patterson... more
        Dunbar — Jack, Mon Aug 13 9:02am
        
        William “Mid” Nichols saloon partner of John “Jack” Ryan Baggs, Wyoming. Vernal Express 1894-08-16 Sheriff Geo. Searle received a telephone message from Fort Duchesne, Tuesday morning stating that... more
        DIED WITH HIS BOOTS ON — Jack, Mon Aug 13 12:35pm
        
        THE CARBON COUNTY JOURNAL SATURADAY JULY 30, 1898 DIED WITH HIS BOOTS ON. Jeff Dunbar Falls From Bullets Fired By Jim Davis. DIXON THE BLOODY SCENE. Davis Full of Wounds But Will Probably Recover --- ... more
        Re: Dunbar — Daniel Buck, Mon Aug 13 10:02am
        
        Thanks, Jack. By the way, years later, December 23, 1915, the Encampment Record ran a short recollection on Dunbar and Davis, describing Dunbar as a "noted highwayman" who along with "his associates... more
        Yes Dan — Pat, Mon Aug 13 12:56pm
        
        He got his rep the same way Butch did. The propaganda machine in WY.Wy Stock Growers, RR, Pinks and yellow journalists. Not to mention Col Jay L Torrey who had a personal vendetta. Here is a story... more
        Jack — Pat, Sun Aug 12 12:14pm
        
        I have read that. Dunbar killed 100 or more men? Phew, he was the most prolific killer in all the west. Wonder why no one has written a book about him. But while you are at it and so good at... more
        Great Robber Gang — Jack, Sun Aug 12 12:52pm
        
        Pat Maybe you will find this article more to your liking? Jeff Dunbar Dec 10, 1897 Wheatland World
        Re: Jack — Jack, Sun Aug 12 12:33pm
        
        Pat You liked and encouraged everyone to read the Idaho Statesman Nov 18, 1897 article. You don’t like the Steamboat Pilot article of Aug 10, 1898, why because it mentions Butch Cassidy?
        Among his associates may be mentioned “Broncho” Johnson - Wi (nm — Anonymous, Sun Aug 12 8:43am
        
        Re: Among his associates may be mentioned “Broncho” Johnson - Wi — Jack, Sun Aug 12 8:52am
        
        William Ellsworth Lay, alias Johnson
        We will take this one at a time — Pat, Sat Aug 11 9:37am
        
        I did not say Butch never robbed nor did I say he was a willing Patsy. You completely misconstued what I said. He was not an outlaw until he got out of prison and then it is anyones guess what all he ... more
        Re: We will take this one at a time — Vince Garcia, Sat Aug 11 12:16pm
        
        I didn't say you said he "never robbed". I said you seem to claim he "hardly robbed" anything. Maybe I've missed it, but I know of no major Cassidy historian who has opined or claimed that Butch was... more
        Re: We will take this one at a time — Pat, Sat Aug 11 12:56pm
        
        Vince if there were any Peers of mine on this forum I would share with them and I have . And you certainly are not one. Nor are you a historian or a genealogist. You are a groupie who decides what... more
        Re: We will take this one at a time — Anonymous, Sat Aug 11 2:35pm
        
        Pat To bad Badland Mary is no longer with us, she would have kicked your lying ass!!
        Re: We will take this one at a time — Vince Garcia, Sat Aug 11 12:59pm
        
        You--not me--are the one who wants to be acknowledged as having the "real" truth about Butch Cassidy. You--not me--are the one who wants to rewrite history. Deal with it
        Yes — Pat, Sat Aug 11 1:11pm
        
        And you are a sheep that follows the flock and are incapable of an original thought. History is an ongoing work and nothing is accepted unless there is incontrovertible facts. I don't put anything on ... more
        You finally figured that out? (nm) — Pat, Fri Aug 10 7:58pm
      - By the way.. — Pat, Fri Aug 10 5:34pm
        
        I found something in the mss of Phillips that Pointer overlooked . It is a doozy.
      - By the way — Anonymous, Sat Aug 11 10:00pm
        
        I don't think so.

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