The propaganda machine spread the news that Butch had gone to SA. There is no proof whatsoever that this is true. They also said Logan went to SA. So were they right about either one? Follow the money.
Torrey was one of the most powerful men in the US. He not only owned the largest ranch in WY but he had been State Rep then went to Mo and became US Senator. He even ran on a losing ticket for VP of US. He got the Bankruptcy law passed and was head of the Rough Riders in WY. He is the one who pushed the Pinkerton's into pursuing Butch .
Then the fact that there were large rewards for Butch and Logan was natural for them to be the ones who were pursued the most.
So were the Pinks right about Butch but wrong about Logan or were they right about Logan and wrong about Butch or were they just beating the bushes.
Think about this.In Bolivia you have short ,dark, homely people who only speak Spanish . So when a North American comes , they are tall , light skinned and light hair with blue eyes and speak English. Like the old phrase "they all looked alike".
The Pinks had spread posters all over SA and anyone who was from US became immediately suspect. And there were hundreds of cowboys from the US who had gone to SA during those years. Many from TX. Some were outlaws and killers on the run. Others went to work on ranches. Still others to start their own businesses.
So we have 2 men killed in San Vicente that no one cared about until years later when lawyers began looking for someone who may or may not have been Sundance. By then most of the evidence was destroyed . The day after the murders of the 2 men the Police Captain takes off with the money and evidence and goes in the opposite direction he was supposed to. It took many months for the Aramayo mine to get back any of the money and we do not know much about that either. Only after the killings in 1911 of Wilson and others is there an inquiry.
Newspapers in England pick up on it mostly because of the Welsh group in that area and British mining and RR interests. Then it is picked up by the US papers .Then the Elks article propagates more misinformation and so it goes. Kelly picks it up and writes his book. Warner not one to be left out of any limelight writes his book. And all because of the propaganda machine spreading posters of Butch and Sundance and Logan in SA.
Look at that famous Jones photo of the 3 at Chillia. It is most likely Sundance and Etta. But the man sitting with the suit jacket on has a narrow face and pointy chin. Not Butch.
Then we have the 70's and up when Anne and Dan write their book and do find a great deal of circumstantial evidence and much is probably true about Sundance. But they have tunnel vision and only see Butch as the 2nd man killed when there is NO proof whatsoever. Then we have Pointer who also had tunnel vision and sees only Phillips as Butch . Only after all these years when it was proven that Phillips was Wilcox do we know the truth . Both of these authors have done a great deal of work and both have a lot to offer us in the way of facts and some evidence. But they both fell short because they did not look outside the box. They believed what the propaganda machine had said back in 1901.
Pointer without knowing it, in his newest book , has run across the truth . He is in the right church but the wrong pew so to speak.
The letter may not be by Hoffman but it is doubtful that it is written by Butch. The only provenance you give for this letter is that it was donated by Harvey Murdock.It did not even come to light... more
Using logic there is a lot of problems with this letter. Mainly Butch would not have written to Matilda as her daughter was divorced from Elzy for several years and there was a lot of animosity over... more
Your post is rather long on speculation more than actual fact. Past that, the list of people who apparently accept that letter as legit, and cite it in their writings (apart from legions of secondary ... more
I suggest you go ask that of Bill Bentenson and Donna Ernst. For some reason you want to focus on me, and demean me for relying on the accepted history of Butch CAssidy. I suggest you go rag on... more
You began this attack on me and when I turned the tables you run crying to mama. If you don't like what I post simply ignore it. But if you want to engage me then I will give back as good as I get.... more
It's because I actualy think and do original research . Not like you that just accepts what anyone wants to write about. And copies it off the internet. I am not the only one who has come to this... more
Why am I not surprised you offered not one bit of proof the letter is a fake? And this brilliant methodology of "original research" of yours is how you have concluded: Butch never robbed hardly... more
You may want to read the the article in the Idaho Statesman, Nov 18, 1897. It is a long article about the gangs in the Powder Springs, Baggs, and Craig area. It lists many names of outlaws and the... more
Publication: Steamboat Pilot (Steamboat Springs, Routt County); Date: Aug 10, 1898; Section: Front page; Page: 1 JEFF DUNBAR OUTLAW Ending of a Career Notorious in Criminal Annals. WAS AN OULAW BY... more
Jack, Thanks for posting this article. I wish there was more of this kind of post on the subject on this board and less childish sniping. If this article is legit and credible it seems to imply that... more
Jerry & Dan, The Jeff Dunbar articles were probably all penned by Willis George Emerson, who was known for sensationalizing. I’ve heard a lot of stories about Jeff Dunbar, none were positive. As far... more
August 1897 George R. Caldwell correspondent of the Denver News wrote Bandits of the Border. Similar versions same article, November 1897 The Idaho Daily Statesman, Organized Highwaymen Terrorize... more
Thanks, Jack. Helpful information. Willis George Emerson rewriting George R. Caldwell sounds like Baron von Munchausen borrowing from Marco Polo. By the way, I ran Emerson's name thru a two more... more
Jack, Thanks, good summary. I'd forgotten about Emerson. His byline, "Willis George Emerson, Grand Encampment, Wyo, Aug. 6, 1898," is barely readable on a splotchy, microfilm copy of his August 7,... more
Jerry, Jeff Dunbar and as well William "Mike" Dunbar, reportedly his brother, who might have been linked to the Winnamucca holdup, are mentioned briefly in Ernst (2009), Burton (2012). Patterson... more
William “Mid” Nichols saloon partner of John “Jack” Ryan Baggs, Wyoming. Vernal Express 1894-08-16 Sheriff Geo. Searle received a telephone message from Fort Duchesne, Tuesday morning stating that... more
THE CARBON COUNTY JOURNAL SATURADAY JULY 30, 1898 DIED WITH HIS BOOTS ON. Jeff Dunbar Falls From Bullets Fired By Jim Davis. DIXON THE BLOODY SCENE. Davis Full of Wounds But Will Probably Recover --- ... more
Thanks, Jack. By the way, years later, December 23, 1915, the Encampment Record ran a short recollection on Dunbar and Davis, describing Dunbar as a "noted highwayman" who along with "his associates... more
He got his rep the same way Butch did. The propaganda machine in WY.Wy Stock Growers, RR, Pinks and yellow journalists. Not to mention Col Jay L Torrey who had a personal vendetta. Here is a story... more
I did not say Butch never robbed nor did I say he was a willing Patsy. You completely misconstued what I said. He was not an outlaw until he got out of prison and then it is anyones guess what all he ... more
I didn't say you said he "never robbed". I said you seem to claim he "hardly robbed" anything. Maybe I've missed it, but I know of no major Cassidy historian who has opined or claimed that Butch was... more
Vince if there were any Peers of mine on this forum I would share with them and I have . And you certainly are not one. Nor are you a historian or a genealogist. You are a groupie who decides what... more
And you are a sheep that follows the flock and are incapable of an original thought. History is an ongoing work and nothing is accepted unless there is incontrovertible facts. I don't put anything on ... more