Lease this WebApp and get rid of the ads.
Pat
more questions
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:25am
98.127.161.155

It seems that the De Young photo of SD and Etta were in the hands of the Pinks until 2000 when they donated it to LoC . But what happened to all the other photos and negatives of the De Young studio. I have a reason for asking .

  • Dan or anyone questionPat, Mon Nov 13 10:07am
    The photographer of the original photo of Sundance and Etta had a photo gallery in NY. What happened to all his photos or negatives after his shop was closed. Would they be at LoC or Smithsonian or... more
    • Re: Dan or anyone questionDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 12:24pm
      Pat, As far as I know, when the DeYoung died in 1919, he left half of his studio property to his business partner, and the other half don't know. Nor do I know if the studio then closed, was sold, or ... more
      • Thanks DanPat, Mon Nov 13 12:56pm
        Here is why I'm asking . Just a thought so don't go all ballistic. LOL DeYoung opened his shop at 826 broadway in 1902. His partner as you alluded to was a woman Matilda Wallace .When he died in 1919 ... more
        • De YoungsMark Mszanski, Tue Nov 14 10:42pm
          It is possible a photo could have been taken - But the Pinks were pretty thorough - They gumshoed Union Square with the photos and one can surmise got the land lady at 234 East 12th ( Catharine... more
        • Re: Thanks DanDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 2:02pm
          Pat, Forgot to mention, Argentina is and was in the early 1900s demographically a European country, especially Buenos Aires. Moreover, Dimaio showed Sundance and Cassidy photos to employees of a... more
          • Re: Thanks DanPat, Mon Nov 13 2:39pm
            Maybe the lost Cassidy file you mentioned was sent to LA office and when it was auctioned off Bob Mc bought it all. Maybe he knows.
        • Re: Thanks DanDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 1:53pm
          Pat, I'm having trouble following you -- don't go ballistic, heh . If the Pinkertons located DeYoung and the SK&EP photo, we might assume they asked DeYoung for other photos & none were found. The... more
          • Dan again thanksPat, Mon Nov 13 2:36pm
            We can disagree. There was no photo of Cassidy in NY. There is no evidence that he was Ryan other than the Pinks thinking he was. And there is no evidence how Cassidy nor Ryan got to SA. It is so... more
            • Re: Dan again thanksDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 4:34pm
              Pat, Saying there "is no evidence" when in fact there is evidence -- in both New York and Argentina -- is not a very productive line of inquiry. Dan
              • Since Pat brought up the Lay letter...ChrisV, Mon Nov 13 5:10pm
                All of the Butch letters have a similar look. To the casual observer, they look pretty much the same. However, every one of the letters has discrepancies. Im sure someone will chime in and say... more
            • Re: Dan again thanksVince Garcia, Mon Nov 13 3:31pm
              Pat, you're awfully free with the term "no evidence:" there is an abundance of evidence. You just dismiss, deny it, or seem to want video proof, then claim there's "no evidence." based on your own... more
              • Here we goPat, Mon Nov 13 4:58pm
                Dan I have never known you to take the word of someone as proof . That's all you have on the Davis letter. The real Lay (Calvert) family dismisses it vehemently. And the Parker family would believe... more
                • Re: Here we goDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 7:25pm
                  Parker/Cassidy/Ryan in New York & in Argentina: 29 July 1902 Pinkerton memo: "At 234 East 12th Street Longbaugh had with him George Parker. He was known at this boarding house under the name of... more
                • Memory stretchingVince Garcia, Mon Nov 13 5:54pm
                  I'm really stretching here, and my books are buried so I can't check. Dan can quickly confirm if I'm right or wrong and may even be able to give the quote. But doesn't Wm French in his memoirs say... more
                  • Vince I have the French bookPat, Tue Nov 14 9:18am
                    French did not get any of his info from Lay. He had moved to his ranch in Trinidad by then and was merely repeating gossip. . In 1906 Lay got out and with his partner George Musgrave left to go get... more
                    • Re: Vince I have the French bookVince Garcia, Tue Nov 14 9:54am
                      Pat--you're trying to say French was what? Was confusing another many for Lay? He wasn't sure who Lay was? Made up the whole story? Lay never visited him? He repeated gossip and inserted Lay into the ... more
                  • Re: Memory stretchingDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 6:57pm
                    Vince, Your memory is good -- I had completely forgotten about this. William French, Some Recollections of a Western Ranchman (1965), pp. 283: Elzy Lay told French a year or so after Lay had been... more
                    • reprint of bookPat, Tue Nov 14 9:20am
                      Dan a year or 2 after Lay got out in 1906. That would be when Lay and Musgrave were in Rawlins ,WY. It's all BS.
                    • Re: Memory stretchingVince Garcia, Tue Nov 14 2:23am
                      So will the argument now be that "Jim Lowe" wasn't Butch Cassidy, but that "Jim Lowe" was actually another man? What more do we need? I really don't get this denial that Butch went to SA.
                • Re: Here we goVince Garcia, Mon Nov 13 5:27pm
                  Well, let's start with the most accepted lore on Butch and SD after Winnemucca. Whatever my view, I think most would accept the claim that Butch and SD were seen in Colorado together, where SD gave... more
            • Re: Dan again thanksChrisV, Mon Nov 13 3:16pm
              Lots of empty file folders at the LOC too.
              • re:Bob Goodwin, Tue Nov 14 5:44am
                Maybe Sandy Berger stuffed them down his pants, or Reality Winner stuffed them in her pantyhose.
                • Bob maybe Pat, Tue Nov 14 9:10am
                  It may be the guy who was looking at the Lexus files at LoC and found Buck's info and book in there and said on the film "What the hell is Buck doing in here" LOL. Maybe Dan stuffed them down his... more
                  • Re: Bob maybe ChrisV, Tue Nov 14 9:15am
                    It didnt fit his "pet evidence and theory" so it disappeared.....scary
                • re:ChrisV, Tue Nov 14 5:46am
                  I can think of one better Bob....
    • more questions — Pat, Mon Nov 13 10:25am
Click here to receive daily updates