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Dan again thanks
Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:36pm

We can disagree. There was no photo of Cassidy in NY. There is no evidence that he was Ryan other than the Pinks thinking he was. And there is no evidence how Cassidy nor Ryan got to SA. It is so very convenient for the Pinks to have lost the cassidy file isn't it?

I maintain that Ryan was not Cassidy.

  • Re: Thanks DanDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 1:53pm
    Pat, I'm having trouble following you -- don't go ballistic, heh . If the Pinkertons located DeYoung and the SK&EP photo, we might assume they asked DeYoung for other photos & none were found. The... more
    • Dan again thanks — Pat, Mon Nov 13 2:36pm
      • Re: Dan again thanksDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 4:34pm
        Pat, Saying there "is no evidence" when in fact there is evidence -- in both New York and Argentina -- is not a very productive line of inquiry. Dan
        • Since Pat brought up the Lay letter...ChrisV, Mon Nov 13 5:10pm
          All of the Butch letters have a similar look. To the casual observer, they look pretty much the same. However, every one of the letters has discrepancies. Im sure someone will chime in and say... more
      • Re: Dan again thanksVince Garcia, Mon Nov 13 3:31pm
        Pat, you're awfully free with the term "no evidence:" there is an abundance of evidence. You just dismiss, deny it, or seem to want video proof, then claim there's "no evidence." based on your own... more
        • Here we goPat, Mon Nov 13 4:58pm
          Dan I have never known you to take the word of someone as proof . That's all you have on the Davis letter. The real Lay (Calvert) family dismisses it vehemently. And the Parker family would believe... more
          • Re: Here we goDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 7:25pm
            Parker/Cassidy/Ryan in New York & in Argentina: 29 July 1902 Pinkerton memo: "At 234 East 12th Street Longbaugh had with him George Parker. He was known at this boarding house under the name of... more
            • Eye Witness accounts abound as well in SOAMMark Mszanski, Mon Nov 13 8:00pm
              Dan - Vice Council George Newbury had met Butch, Sundance and Ethel in person and ID'd them to Detective Frank Dimaio based upon the photos sent to Dimaio by the Pinkerton Agency while he was in... more
              • Eyewitness accountneglib, Tue Nov 14 6:29am
                And what year did Newbury met them? Brett
                • Year?Mark Mszanski, Tue Nov 14 6:50am
                  Accoding to his own notes , Frank Dimaio arrived in Buenos Aires in 1903. Based upon this date, Newbury would have known the trio in at least 1902 and possibly even as early as 1901 upon their... more
                  • 1902neglib, Tue Nov 14 6:55am
                    Don't stretch the facts. It was 1902.
                    • Switch the facts ?Mark Mszanski, Tue Nov 14 7:14am
                      I am not aware of Newbury stating which year he met them . You obviously think I am switching the facts . Do you have evidence as to whether it is 1901 or 1902? Can you present it here?
          • Memory stretchingVince Garcia, Mon Nov 13 5:54pm
            I'm really stretching here, and my books are buried so I can't check. Dan can quickly confirm if I'm right or wrong and may even be able to give the quote. But doesn't Wm French in his memoirs say... more
            • Vince I have the French bookPat, Tue Nov 14 9:18am
              French did not get any of his info from Lay. He had moved to his ranch in Trinidad by then and was merely repeating gossip. . In 1906 Lay got out and with his partner George Musgrave left to go get... more
              • Re: Vince I have the French bookVince Garcia, Tue Nov 14 9:54am
                Pat--you're trying to say French was what? Was confusing another many for Lay? He wasn't sure who Lay was? Made up the whole story? Lay never visited him? He repeated gossip and inserted Lay into the ... more
            • Re: Memory stretchingDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 6:57pm
              Vince, Your memory is good -- I had completely forgotten about this. William French, Some Recollections of a Western Ranchman (1965), pp. 283: Elzy Lay told French a year or so after Lay had been... more
              • reprint of bookPat, Tue Nov 14 9:20am
                Dan a year or 2 after Lay got out in 1906. That would be when Lay and Musgrave were in Rawlins ,WY. It's all BS.
              • Re: Memory stretchingVince Garcia, Tue Nov 14 2:23am
                So will the argument now be that "Jim Lowe" wasn't Butch Cassidy, but that "Jim Lowe" was actually another man? What more do we need? I really don't get this denial that Butch went to SA.
                • Re: Memory stretchingDaniel Buck, Tue Nov 14 3:07am
                  Evidence has no currency in the universe of trolls & obscurants. Evidence is the enemy. Few are even vaguely familiar with the basic facts. They spend their time not researching, but trolling.
                  • TrollsBob Goodwin, Tue Nov 14 5:58am
                    Dan, you know that Pat is not a Troll. she has her opinion, which is different than yours. She believes that Butch never went to South America, but ended up in Mexico instead. To support that belief, ... more
                    • Re: TrollsDaniel Buck, Tue Nov 14 7:42am
                      Bo Hmm, I did not name any trolls, how did you deduce I was speaking of Pat Schroeder? Smile. A troll is someone who routinely posts provocative remarks in in order to stir up controversy. You are... more
          • Re: Here we goVince Garcia, Mon Nov 13 5:27pm
            Well, let's start with the most accepted lore on Butch and SD after Winnemucca. Whatever my view, I think most would accept the claim that Butch and SD were seen in Colorado together, where SD gave... more
      • Re: Dan again thanksChrisV, Mon Nov 13 3:16pm
        Lots of empty file folders at the LOC too.
        • re:Bob Goodwin, Tue Nov 14 5:44am
          Maybe Sandy Berger stuffed them down his pants, or Reality Winner stuffed them in her pantyhose.
          • Bob maybe Pat, Tue Nov 14 9:10am
            It may be the guy who was looking at the Lexus files at LoC and found Buck's info and book in there and said on the film "What the hell is Buck doing in here" LOL. Maybe Dan stuffed them down his... more
            • Re: Bob maybe ChrisV, Tue Nov 14 9:15am
              It didnt fit his "pet evidence and theory" so it disappeared.....scary
          • re:ChrisV, Tue Nov 14 5:46am
            I can think of one better Bob....
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