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Pat
Here we go
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:58pm
98.127.161.155

Dan I have never known you to take the word of someone as proof . That's all you have on the Davis letter. The real Lay (Calvert) family dismisses it vehemently. And the Parker family would believe anything. The letter was never tested for age, paper,ink etc. It didn't show up until the 60's and is now buried so deep the devil couldn't find it . You need that letter because you use it to prove the other handwriting samples. Without it you have nothing. But taking someone's word for it is not proof especially where it came from .

As for other evidence well show me anything on Cassidy in NY. Please. He was not James Ryan.

Did you ask your buddy Bob Mc if the Cassidy files were in the LA boxes of Pink files he bought?

Good researchers are suppose to question evidence when it is shady. I know it hurts your feelings or ego that I just don't swallow it all hook line and sinker. But then I don't believe Roy Moore either. LOL


  • Re: Dan again thanksVince Garcia, Mon Nov 13 3:31pm
    Pat, you're awfully free with the term "no evidence:" there is an abundance of evidence. You just dismiss, deny it, or seem to want video proof, then claim there's "no evidence." based on your own... more
    • Here we go — Pat, Mon Nov 13 4:58pm
      • Re: Here we goDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 7:25pm
        Parker/Cassidy/Ryan in New York & in Argentina: 29 July 1902 Pinkerton memo: "At 234 East 12th Street Longbaugh had with him George Parker. He was known at this boarding house under the name of... more
        • Eye Witness accounts abound as well in SOAMMark Mszanski, Mon Nov 13 8:00pm
          Dan - Vice Council George Newbury had met Butch, Sundance and Ethel in person and ID'd them to Detective Frank Dimaio based upon the photos sent to Dimaio by the Pinkerton Agency while he was in... more
          • Eyewitness accountneglib, Tue Nov 14 6:29am
            And what year did Newbury met them? Brett
            • Year?Mark Mszanski, Tue Nov 14 6:50am
              Accoding to his own notes , Frank Dimaio arrived in Buenos Aires in 1903. Based upon this date, Newbury would have known the trio in at least 1902 and possibly even as early as 1901 upon their... more
              • 1902neglib, Tue Nov 14 6:55am
                Don't stretch the facts. It was 1902.
                • Switch the facts ?Mark Mszanski, Tue Nov 14 7:14am
                  I am not aware of Newbury stating which year he met them . You obviously think I am switching the facts . Do you have evidence as to whether it is 1901 or 1902? Can you present it here?
                  • RE:1902neglib, Tue Nov 14 7:45am
                    Frank Dimaio interviewed neighbor Dr. Newbery in March 1903 who said the following about Place and Ryan: “good fellows, doing well, doubled stock…within last year” which would mean 1902.
                    • OK Very good =- And your point>?Mark Mszanski, Tue Nov 14 7:57am
                      Neglib - According to what you have found , Newbury states that in the last year (1902) they had built up their ranch. It does not state if he met them earlier. To me it states that over the last... more
      • Memory stretchingVince Garcia, Mon Nov 13 5:54pm
        I'm really stretching here, and my books are buried so I can't check. Dan can quickly confirm if I'm right or wrong and may even be able to give the quote. But doesn't Wm French in his memoirs say... more
        • Vince I have the French bookPat, Tue Nov 14 9:18am
          French did not get any of his info from Lay. He had moved to his ranch in Trinidad by then and was merely repeating gossip. . In 1906 Lay got out and with his partner George Musgrave left to go get... more
          • Re: Vince I have the French bookVince Garcia, Tue Nov 14 9:54am
            Pat--you're trying to say French was what? Was confusing another many for Lay? He wasn't sure who Lay was? Made up the whole story? Lay never visited him? He repeated gossip and inserted Lay into the ... more
        • Re: Memory stretchingDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 6:57pm
          Vince, Your memory is good -- I had completely forgotten about this. William French, Some Recollections of a Western Ranchman (1965), pp. 283: Elzy Lay told French a year or so after Lay had been... more
          • reprint of bookPat, Tue Nov 14 9:20am
            Dan a year or 2 after Lay got out in 1906. That would be when Lay and Musgrave were in Rawlins ,WY. It's all BS.
          • Re: Memory stretchingVince Garcia, Tue Nov 14 2:23am
            So will the argument now be that "Jim Lowe" wasn't Butch Cassidy, but that "Jim Lowe" was actually another man? What more do we need? I really don't get this denial that Butch went to SA.
            • Re: Memory stretchingDaniel Buck, Tue Nov 14 3:07am
              Evidence has no currency in the universe of trolls & obscurants. Evidence is the enemy. Few are even vaguely familiar with the basic facts. They spend their time not researching, but trolling.
              • TrollsBob Goodwin, Tue Nov 14 5:58am
                Dan, you know that Pat is not a Troll. she has her opinion, which is different than yours. She believes that Butch never went to South America, but ended up in Mexico instead. To support that belief, ... more
                • Re: TrollsDaniel Buck, Tue Nov 14 7:42am
                  Bo Hmm, I did not name any trolls, how did you deduce I was speaking of Pat Schroeder? Smile. A troll is someone who routinely posts provocative remarks in in order to stir up controversy. You are... more
                  • Oh My!Pat, Tue Nov 14 9:04am
                    If I am a troll then Dan you are a bully. It has to be your way or the highway. However I will post "All" my evidence that Butch did not go to SA if you will publish all 1500 pages of the Godoy files ... more
                    • Pat , Chris and Neglib -The Big ThreeMark Mszanski, Tue Nov 14 8:57pm
                      The big Three - You all must laugh your butts off posting the crap you come up with . Seriously - " lets stay contrarian no matter what the facts or evidence is " - It must be funny - Oh man that Dan ... more
                    • Re: Oh My!Daniel Buck, Tue Nov 14 11:25am
                      Pat, If someone asserts a new narrative about an historical event, the obligation is on them to present the evidence. That's the way it works. Best, Dan
                  • Confirmation BiasChrisV, Tue Nov 14 8:07am
                    "PS I don't have pet theories, I have pet evidence. The theory follows the evidence." Actually, I think you have confirmation bias. All of us probably suffer from this.
      • Re: Here we goVince Garcia, Mon Nov 13 5:27pm
        Well, let's start with the most accepted lore on Butch and SD after Winnemucca. Whatever my view, I think most would accept the claim that Butch and SD were seen in Colorado together, where SD gave... more
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