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Vince Garcia
Re: Here we go
Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:27pm
2001:558:6012:3e:a01f:f375:bbc:9802

Well, let's start with the most accepted lore on Butch and SD after Winnemucca.

Whatever my view, I think most would accept the claim that Butch and SD were seen in Colorado together, where SD gave away his gun, telling friends it was their intention to leave for where?

SOUTH AMERICA.

So if SD said he and another man were leaving for SA, who was the other man? Some strange guy named James Ryan he hooked up with out of nowhere? No. According to the witness. the man being spoken of was BC.

Then SD is in New York with a guy named Ryan whom he goes to SA with.

Ergo, the Butch Cassidy SD said he was going to SA with must have been the Ryan he was in New york with.

Far as the letter goes, you haven't given any hard evidence against it except to say it hasn't been tested to your satisfaction.

So let's say someone DID test it, and it dated to around 1900. I think you'd still deny Butch wrote it and claim it was James Ryan who wasn't BC



.

  • Here we goPat, Mon Nov 13 4:58pm
    Dan I have never known you to take the word of someone as proof . That's all you have on the Davis letter. The real Lay (Calvert) family dismisses it vehemently. And the Parker family would believe... more
    • Re: Here we goDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 7:25pm
      Parker/Cassidy/Ryan in New York & in Argentina: 29 July 1902 Pinkerton memo: "At 234 East 12th Street Longbaugh had with him George Parker. He was known at this boarding house under the name of... more
      • Eye Witness accounts abound as well in SOAMMark Mszanski, Mon Nov 13 8:00pm
        Dan - Vice Council George Newbury had met Butch, Sundance and Ethel in person and ID'd them to Detective Frank Dimaio based upon the photos sent to Dimaio by the Pinkerton Agency while he was in... more
        • Eyewitness accountneglib, Tue Nov 14 6:29am
          And what year did Newbury met them? Brett
          • Year?Mark Mszanski, Tue Nov 14 6:50am
            Accoding to his own notes , Frank Dimaio arrived in Buenos Aires in 1903. Based upon this date, Newbury would have known the trio in at least 1902 and possibly even as early as 1901 upon their... more
            • 1902neglib, Tue Nov 14 6:55am
              Don't stretch the facts. It was 1902.
              • Switch the facts ?Mark Mszanski, Tue Nov 14 7:14am
                I am not aware of Newbury stating which year he met them . You obviously think I am switching the facts . Do you have evidence as to whether it is 1901 or 1902? Can you present it here?
                • RE:1902neglib, Tue Nov 14 7:45am
                  Frank Dimaio interviewed neighbor Dr. Newbery in March 1903 who said the following about Place and Ryan: “good fellows, doing well, doubled stock…within last year” which would mean 1902.
                  • OK Very good =- And your point>?Mark Mszanski, Tue Nov 14 7:57am
                    Neglib - According to what you have found , Newbury states that in the last year (1902) they had built up their ranch. It does not state if he met them earlier. To me it states that over the last... more
    • Memory stretchingVince Garcia, Mon Nov 13 5:54pm
      I'm really stretching here, and my books are buried so I can't check. Dan can quickly confirm if I'm right or wrong and may even be able to give the quote. But doesn't Wm French in his memoirs say... more
      • Vince I have the French bookPat, Tue Nov 14 9:18am
        French did not get any of his info from Lay. He had moved to his ranch in Trinidad by then and was merely repeating gossip. . In 1906 Lay got out and with his partner George Musgrave left to go get... more
        • Re: Vince I have the French bookVince Garcia, Tue Nov 14 9:54am
          Pat--you're trying to say French was what? Was confusing another many for Lay? He wasn't sure who Lay was? Made up the whole story? Lay never visited him? He repeated gossip and inserted Lay into the ... more
      • Re: Memory stretchingDaniel Buck, Mon Nov 13 6:57pm
        Vince, Your memory is good -- I had completely forgotten about this. William French, Some Recollections of a Western Ranchman (1965), pp. 283: Elzy Lay told French a year or so after Lay had been... more
        • reprint of bookPat, Tue Nov 14 9:20am
          Dan a year or 2 after Lay got out in 1906. That would be when Lay and Musgrave were in Rawlins ,WY. It's all BS.
        • Re: Memory stretchingVince Garcia, Tue Nov 14 2:23am
          So will the argument now be that "Jim Lowe" wasn't Butch Cassidy, but that "Jim Lowe" was actually another man? What more do we need? I really don't get this denial that Butch went to SA.
          • Re: Memory stretchingDaniel Buck, Tue Nov 14 3:07am
            Evidence has no currency in the universe of trolls & obscurants. Evidence is the enemy. Few are even vaguely familiar with the basic facts. They spend their time not researching, but trolling.
            • TrollsBob Goodwin, Tue Nov 14 5:58am
              Dan, you know that Pat is not a Troll. she has her opinion, which is different than yours. She believes that Butch never went to South America, but ended up in Mexico instead. To support that belief, ... more
              • Re: TrollsDaniel Buck, Tue Nov 14 7:42am
                Bo Hmm, I did not name any trolls, how did you deduce I was speaking of Pat Schroeder? Smile. A troll is someone who routinely posts provocative remarks in in order to stir up controversy. You are... more
                • Oh My!Pat, Tue Nov 14 9:04am
                  If I am a troll then Dan you are a bully. It has to be your way or the highway. However I will post "All" my evidence that Butch did not go to SA if you will publish all 1500 pages of the Godoy files ... more
                  • Pat , Chris and Neglib -The Big ThreeMark Mszanski, Tue Nov 14 8:57pm
                    The big Three - You all must laugh your butts off posting the crap you come up with . Seriously - " lets stay contrarian no matter what the facts or evidence is " - It must be funny - Oh man that Dan ... more
                    • MarkPat, Tue Nov 14 9:15pm
                      Did that make you feel better? Superior to the rest of us? Bill Maher calls people like you Whiny little B's/ LOL Actually there are a whole lot more of us who don't agree with you or Dan but they do ... more
                  • Re: Oh My!Daniel Buck, Tue Nov 14 11:25am
                    Pat, If someone asserts a new narrative about an historical event, the obligation is on them to present the evidence. That's the way it works. Best, Dan
                • Confirmation BiasChrisV, Tue Nov 14 8:07am
                  "PS I don't have pet theories, I have pet evidence. The theory follows the evidence." Actually, I think you have confirmation bias. All of us probably suffer from this.
    • Re: Here we go — Vince Garcia, Mon Nov 13 5:27pm
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