Lease this WebApp and get rid of the ads.
Daniel Buck
Re: Fiction on the High Seas?
Fri Jan 5, 2018 7:14am

Inspectors Javert,
Let's say the 1902 Honorious crew list bearing the signatures of H.A. Place and Mrs. H.A. Place is archived at Kew rather than Newfoundland, so what? It exists, that's the important issue.

It's possible it's at Newfoundland, or perhaps at Kew, or at both archives. Or perhaps your note writer is referring to a different document. When we clear that point up, the fact remains that the document exists.

By the way, your post contains an error -- you referred to Mszanski's "bibliography." His article has no bibliography, just endnotes. Such an grievous, unspeakable error would get the real Inspector Javert docked a month's pay or a spanking, one or the other. Best, Dan

  • Fiction on the High Seas?neglib, Thu Jan 4 8:16pm
    Mark, In your article “Wild Bunch on the High Seas” you claim that the logbook was found in Newfoundland. You make many claims on this forum that you found the signatures in Newfoundland as well.... more
    • My how the termites have feasted here Mark Mszanski, Fri Jan 5 10:40pm
      I was on a plane all afternoon and evening back from California on business. But have done an initial search of my old email back to 2016. Here is what I have in my email box. I have emails with... more
      • Have you seen the logbook in Person?ChrisV, Tue Jan 9 6:00pm
        Mark, Have you seen the logbook in person? How many pages does it have? What are the dimensions out of curiosity? Chris
      • You've Provided the NourishmentChrisV, Sat Jan 6 4:53am
        Mark, The part I don't get is your make believe story of a researcher finding the information in Newfoundland. 1. The information is not there.... it is Kew 2. I talked to Mr Penny myself (and have... more
        • Your reference to end note number 30 Mark Mszanski, Sun Jan 7 9:37am
          Chris - I believe your correct. At least I believe one end note number (30 ) should say Kew and not MHA which was an oversight by me in referring to 42 end notes as sources in my article. There are... more
          • 14% of your endnotes are bad. ChrisV, Mon Jan 8 3:11pm
            Mark, I hate to say it, but its not just end note number 30. It is also endnotes: 32,33,34,36,37 How about showing us the receipt from the National Archives? When you were at Kew last summer, did you ... more
          • Another oversightneglib, Mon Jan 8 5:56am
            You've visited the National Archives but you haven't taken the time to see the log while you were there? Brett
        • There is no made up story Mark Mszanski, Sat Jan 6 6:06am
          Chris - You seem to be very worries about The UK Kew versus Newfoundland Maritime archives. I will check next week. The result however is still the same. You got the signatures and the manifest. You... more
          • Amateur hourChrisv, Sat Jan 6 6:14am
            Glad real researches take things a little more serious than you. Otherwise we would spend all our time fact checking.. how many times you been to national archives? Be careful with your answer lol
        • assuming for purpoes of discussion . . .Daniel Buck, Sat Jan 6 5:43am
          Chris. Let's assume for purposes of discussion that the 1902 Honorius crew list is held at Kew not Newfoundland, so what? It's not unreasonable to see how a researcher, communicating with both... more
          • A good rough draftneglib, Sat Jan 6 7:37am
            I'm sure if I wrote this and had it published, you would would not be so kind. There is more than just a typo in the end note. The story of the "hunt" is inaccurate. According to what you said in a... more
            • If you published anything ? Mark Mszanski, Mon Jan 8 2:34pm
              I would be supportive. Its tough work if you can get it . I look forward to your next article. I don't write and research to make money. I do it as I like the chase. When I have time , I do what I... more
              • in the medianeglib, Tue Jan 9 2:06pm
                You weren't so kind to the RR pic we researched. I doubt anything will change. It must have been pretty awesome to see the crew log in person in Kew. Brett
          • Dan Mistakes happen I agree. To this degree, we will see. I have done my research. The signatures are in kew. No speculation needed Mr. Penny did not get him the signatures. No speculation needed Ask ... more
    • I just called St John's Mark Mszanski, Fri Jan 5 7:42am
      Dear Negligible - I just called Newfoundland this morning to double check . I had forgotten that 10 % of the total samples are held at Kew Gardens and the remaining 75% ( not 90%) are held at St.... more
    • Re: Fiction on the High Seas? — Daniel Buck, Fri Jan 5 7:14am
    • I have all the receipts and I have the person who pulled the docs for me at Newfoundland. That person is sighted. So if he pulled at Kew. Great. He got me wanted I wanted. As well I called Kew... more
      • Same person as you didneglib, Fri Jan 5 7:45am
        We too have our receipts. We also have our correspondence with your researcher you cite in your article. He told us he had nothing to do with getting the Honorius signatures for you. He specifically... more
        • Actually your wrong- Here is a sample Mark Mszanski, Fri Jan 5 7:53am
          Neglible - Your actually wrong and I cannot understand why you would expose yourself to lying - or disinformation to researchers on this site - For reference here is one of the copies of searches -... more
          • Re: Actually your wrong- Here is a sample ChrisV, Fri Jan 5 2:23pm
            Are you serious? What does that have to do with the Honorius signatures? Maybe if you show me a grocery receipt I will believe you lol.
          • Wrong year, wrong shipneglib, Fri Jan 5 8:07am
            What does the 1901 Bellarden have to do with the signatures? The signatures came from the Honorius Log from July 1902.
            • Read and attempt to digest - Mark Mszanski, Fri Jan 5 11:10am
              I sent you an example of one of the receipts - There were quite a few Figure it out -
              • indigestionneglib, Fri Jan 5 11:22am
                Maybe the cold weather is affecting your memory and thinking. Once again, another game of deflection and putting burden on the reader. It's your mistake, fix it.
                • I have no time for you. mark, Fri Jan 5 12:04pm
                  You need to figure it out. The example I sent was just one of the reciept of a few. . I asked for Honorius and bellarden and herminus. Go pay for them. You have all the sources and now the links.
                  • Think CarefullyChrisV, Fri Jan 5 3:27pm
                    Mark how many times have you been to the National Archives in Kew?
                  • It's your article, make timeneglib, Fri Jan 5 12:42pm
                    Your hole is getting deeper. You only provided one source and one link and those don't apply to the 1902 Honorius. The receipts and links won't help you answer my inquiry of why is you are sourcing... more
                  • It's your reputation...make time (nm)Anonymous, Fri Jan 5 12:20pm
            • Mark this is badPat, Fri Jan 5 11:09am
              You said you are in UK at least once a week. You could have accessed the ship records for the Honorius and altered or forged the signatures. The one of Mrs Place is very suspect . Note the H and... more
              • keep in mindDaniel Buck, Fri Jan 5 12:28pm
                Pat, Keep in mind that the fact SK&EP sailed on the Honorius as crew, he as purser and she as steward, from NY to BsAs in 1902 is not new information. Frank Dimaio disclosed it in the notes of his... more
                • Re: keep in mindChrisV, Fri Jan 5 2:29pm
                  No one is disputing the event.....However, just because the event happened doesn't verify that the document is real. I know thats how you've operated on the SA documents as well, but its not how it... more
                • DanPat, Fri Jan 5 1:01pm
                  Not questioning the fact that the Place duo came on a ship to Buenos Aires in 1902. What I question is the method that Mark used to try and show actual signatures. Which may have been forged or... more
                  • Re: DanVince Garcia, Fri Jan 5 3:31pm
                    I'm amazed you're actually implying Mark could have forged these. If you're that worried, why don't you get your own copies and examine them. After that, what "further research" would need to be... more
                    • Thanks Vince Mark Mszanski, Sat Jan 6 8:01am
                      Agreed Vince - Its a vast conspiracy - I have so much time on my hands - In fact, after flying all night , Now I have to take the Christmas tree down - LOL Sincerely,
                  • Re: DanChrisV, Fri Jan 5 2:11pm
                    Pat, The logbook is in Kew. How did I know? Mark's researcher in Newfoundland directed us there. He said they did not have it. Only Kew carried 1902 logbooks. Newfoundland has 1901 and 1903. We... more
                  • Re: DanDaniel Buck, Fri Jan 5 1:15pm
                    Pat, I would hesitate to jump to conclusions. Even if the archives got mixed up, because Newfoundland and Kew both house early 1900s British shipping records, it's not a major issue, it's a citation... more
                    • Dan big dealPat, Fri Jan 5 3:07pm
                      It is a big deal. It means we have no way of knowing if there was forged or altered documents. Mark has seriously disappointed me . I will never be able to believe anything he posts in the future.And ... more
                    • Re: DanChrisV, Fri Jan 5 2:18pm
                      Citation big deal lol Mark visits UK monthly, but claims the document is in big deal Mark's researcher says Mark was responsible for ordering documents in Kew, UK.... more
                • A timeline to create a bogus document (nm)Anonymous, Fri Jan 5 12:34pm
                  • posting with a bag over your headDaniel Buck, Fri Jan 5 12:50pm
                    Mr. Anonymous, Are you suggesting that someone forged Ernst (1992), Patterson (1998), and earlier books, and as well Frank Dimaio's 1903 notes, a concatenation of forgers stretching back more than a... more
Click here to receive daily updates