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Daniel Buck
Re: The two girls at Robbers Roost
Fri Feb 2, 2018 8:49am
108.18.67.135

Vince,
I will not repeat all my skepticism about Pocock actually entering Rovvers Roost and hobnobbing with outlaws. To locate my, Bob's & other's comments posted here earlier, search OWR for Pocock.

Two observations though. Bob dated the start of Pocock's Alberta to Mexico City ride as 28 June 1899, meaning he was coming into the Robbers Roost area while the law was still hunting the Wilcox bandits. No likely even if the bandits were at Robbers Roost that they would have allowed a camera toting English writer to cavort in their midst.

Second, re Pocock's references to the Roberts brothers, they were all over the newspapers post-Wilcox, thus Pocock had plenty to borrow for his account.

A close reading of his account of his venture into Robbers Roost territory indicates that he never precisely says that he went in or met Cassidy, etc. He talks about it, talks splendidly about Robbers Roost and various outlaws, but never actually says he was there. Also, in another article, he says he heard of Robbers Roost but did not visit it, although it's not completely clear if he's talking about The Wild Bunch sanctuary or a different roost, in Arizona

My favorite Pocock quote, from the Long Riders Guild website, "Imagination is the soul of journalism." He was mocking Eastern newspapers for exaggerated stories about Western outlaws, but I think there's a certain irony in his remark.

Nonetheless, Pocock is a fascinating character, and he did make the ride, Alberta to Mexico City. Not too shabby. Dan

  • The two girls at Robbers RoostVince Garcia, Fri Feb 2 5:12am
    Don't know the significance or truth of this, and I certainly believe Maude Lay was one of them, but Roger Pocock had this to say of what appears to be a reference to the two girls at Robbers Roost:... more
    • Re: The two girls at Robbers Roost — Daniel Buck, Fri Feb 2 8:49am
      • Re: The two girls at Robbers RoostVince Garcia, Fri Feb 2 9:37am
        I think not claiming he met BC is a point for him. Were he making up a yarn, BC would be the first name he'd put down. But also, as I noted, a rancher claimed the place was abandoned just before... more
        • Re: The two girls at Robbers RoostDaniel Buck, Fri Feb 2 9:58am
          Vince, rather than rehashing all the details -- he named the leader of the gang "Tom McCarthy [sic]" -- Tom McCarty was by 1899 long gone from the area; he identified Cassidy as a Roman Catholic;... more
          • Re: The two girls at Robbers RoostVince Garcia, Fri Feb 2 12:25pm
            My main interest is the two girls. Assuming he heard the story from locals (who may have had semi-accurate info), he may be pinning down where they may have come from, which is valuable knowledge for ... more
            • The Women of Robbers RoostBob Goodwin, Sat Feb 3 8:36am
              Vince, There are four, possibly six women (girls) that were associated with Robbers Roost. Two Women (girls) from Castle Valley were mentioned as being at the Roost early in 1897, and are the ones... more
              • Re: The Women of Robbers RoostDaniel Buck, Sat Feb 3 9:25am
                Bob, Thanks. Both your posts this morning are excellent. Do you know any of the women you mentioned were either in the newspapers or known in, say, Monticello, at the time Pocock was coming through?... more
                • re: the Women of Robbers RoostBob Goodwin, Sat Feb 3 11:43am
                  Dan, Ella Butler had left the Roost area around the time of the Springville Bank Robbery. In later life she used the name Florence in California where she was living after 1920. In 1898 Mont Butler,... more
                • re: the Women of Robbers RoostBob Goodwin, Sat Feb 3 11:17am
                  Dan, Ella Butler had left the Roost area around the time of the Springville Bank Robbery. In later life she used the name Florence in California where she was living after 1920. In 1898 Mont Butler,... more
                  • re: the Women of Robbers RoostDaniel Buck, Sat Feb 3 12:02pm
                    Bob, Thanks. Much appreciated. Your several posts are granular in the best sense of the word. Pocock, p. 289, blends two sets of women into one compound sentence: "The house is cheered by the... more
            • Robbers Roost in 1899Bob Goodwin, Sat Feb 3 7:24am
              In spite of Dan's humorous reply, Robbers Roost in 1899 was about as Pocock described it; whether he was actually there or got his information second hand. The Roost by the fall or late summer of... more
            • Re: The two girls at Robbers RoostDaniel Buck, Fri Feb 2 12:48pm
              Vince, here's a question, when we say -- or Pocock says -- Robbers Roost, what are we really talking about. How big an area, smallest to largest estimates? Second, could he not have wandered into the ... more
              • Re: The two girls at Robbers RoostVince Garcia, Fri Feb 2 2:15pm
                That may be true. In fact, he may never have gone further than camp out at the Flattops. What's important to me is the lore about the two girls' place of origin he may have gotten from locals,... more
                • The FlattopsBob Goodwin, Sat Feb 3 6:44am
                  Vince, The Flattops are a good fifteen miles north of the Roost in the middle of the San Rafael Desert. To get there from Monticello would mean taking the northern route to Green River and back down. ... more
                • Re: The two girls at Robbers RoostDaniel Buck, Sat Feb 3 5:06am
                  Vince, Read Pocock's Following the Frontier (1903), "The Trail of the Outlaw," but only if you are a glutton for confusion. The chief moment of clarity is p. 287, where he says that he arrived in... more
                  • The trail to Robbers RoostBob Goodwin, Sat Feb 3 6:39am
                    Here is the full quote from page 289 (Roger Pocock "Following the Frontier, 1903:" "The tract of land on top of the Orange Cliffs, entirely surrounded by canyons, can only be reached by one or two... more
                    • Southwest Coloradojim lynch, Sat Feb 3 11:28am
                      For anyone with an interest in that part of Colorado, starting in Grand Junction head east on hi-way 50 towards Delta. Turn south on 141 towards Whitewater and cross the Dolores River. Follow the... more
                    • Re: The trail to Robbers RoostDaniel Buck, Sat Feb 3 6:59am
                      Bob, I'm not familiar with the area, that is a given. But I have read (and, alas, reread, Pocock). In the chapter from Following the Frontier (1903) under discussion, "The Trail of the Outlaw," he... more
    • Robbers Roost WomenBob Goodwin, Fri Feb 2 6:22am
      Vince, Dan and I discussed at length Roger Pocock, and whether he actually had any knowledge of Robbers Roost or not here on OWR back in late November. Dan's basic contention is that Pocock never... more
      • Re: Robbers Roost WomenVince Garcia, Fri Feb 2 7:28am
        Outstanding info, thanks bob. I don't know how I missed the discussion on Pocock if it was so recent I would have to assume SD was most likely the other brother. I really never see Flatnose referred... more
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