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Daniel Buck
Re: Karen Tanner
Mon Apr 2, 2018 10:24am
71.126.136.67

Pat,
Even though both Karen Holliday Tanner & John D. Tanner, Jr. are now deceased, their book, Last of the Old Time Outlaws: The George West Musgrave Story, lives on and everyone can read it for themselves.

You took the Jano anecdote of context. In endnote 30 on p. 236, she is citing something Larry Pointer wrote, which Pointer in turn had based on an interview that does not in fact contain what he says the interviewee told him,

Blessedly, we discussed all this back in 2014, so I don't have to research it all over again, all I need do cut-and-paste, below. Dan

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Daniel Buck
Mexico stories
Mon Dec 8, 2014 9:41am
108.18.65.196
Pat,
there are several different stories at play here, all of them wobbly:

1/ Lula Parker Betenson (1975), pp. 186-88, says that Cassidy bumped into EP in a bar in Mexico City (after he had fled Bolivia), and she took him to see SK, who was at their "place in the city." That section of her book begins with "We Parkers always enjoyed a good story." Yes , they did.

In an interview a few years before her book was published, she said SK had died in Bolivia.

2/ Tanner & Tanner (2002), p. 212 refers to a George Musgrave & Jano Magor visit to Mexico in 1913, and in n. 30 on p. 326: "Jano had claimed that they met Butch Cassidy in Mexico, an assertion that is questioned by many." The source the Tanners give for the Mexico sighting is Pointer (1977), p. 217.

3/ Pointer (1977), p. 217, Musgrave & Magor "met Cassidy in Mexico." He asserts that Magor "had known Cassidy since she had witnessed the celebration of the Wild Bunch in 1897." Can we unpack that? Magor was born in 1889, and thus in 1897 was a child of eight. The "celebration" that I believe Pointer is speaking of is the group photo of Bert Charter and a bunch of local businessmen, see p. 133, which Pointer thought was a photograph of 19 Wild Bunch members celebrating, comuning, whatever.

In any event, even if there had been a celebration of 19 Wild Bunch members in Baggs, there's no evidence the eight-year-old Magor witnessed it, and even if she did, how would she have known who was who among 19 careening cowboys?

Pointer sources the Jano Magor sighting of Cassidy in Mexico to his 13 October 1974 interview with Magor in Denver. See n. 6, p. 272. However, there's nothing in the interview (which is at the American Heritage Center, Universit of Wyoming) about Magor meeting Cassidy in Mexico. At the time of the interview, by the way, Magor was ill, had had a stroke, etc. and her nurse was answering many of the questions for her.

The only reference to Mexico: "She said she & husband good friends with Pancho Villa. She said they came through Mexico during a revolution." That's it.

Pointer might have got the Cassidy sighting idea from Boyd Charter, whom he had interviewed the year before, 1 December 1973. Here is the entire section: Jano Magor "to Mexico just before S. Am 1908 very young pulled robbery or two three got along with rebels Mex. they stole horses & were given safe chance out went across border a lot 1924 came through Mexico to get to US where was Longabaugh [1916-17 written, but crossed out] Pancho Villa 1908 Cassidy with them (on ranch?) robbing payroll to tin mines she was in country at that time."

This is Boyd Charter talking about Jano Magor and George Musgrave. (Musgrave, by the way, went to SoAm in 1911, and Magor in 1912.) Boyd Charter is clearly mixing up places, people, and dates. He seemed to think that Jano & George were in SoAm with BC&SK&EP, which is not the case.

Elsewhere in the interview, Pointer wrote "Boyd = Jano = Etta." Does that mean that Boyd thought Jano was Etta? I have no idea, but keep in mind that Boyd was born in 1907, so he would never have known on sight BC&SK&EP and his knowledge of what had happened in the early 1900s in Mexico and SoAm is at best second hand, and more probably third hand.

Dan
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  • Karen TannerPat, Mon Apr 2 6:46am
    How sad read about Karen's death. 3 before before my stroke. In her book she relates how Gorge Musgrave and Jana both saw Butch in 1913 in Mexico
    • Re: Karen Tanner — Daniel Buck, Mon Apr 2 10:24am
      • Re: Karen TannerPat, Mon Apr 2 11:04am
        If you keep going you will outlive us all .So then no one will be able to dispute you. Karen, Pointer, Jack, Me .
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