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Daniel Buck
Re: The real question is the other owtlaws
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:48am
71.126.136.67

Pat,
mon ami, a clarification: Frank Murray, an English engineer, and Ray A. Walters, an America bookkeeper, were arrested in Salo 5 November, the day after the holdup, on suspicion of being the two Aramayo robbers, there being a lookout for two armed Yankees. Close enough. An early case of racial profiling.

They were taken to Tupiza (not Trelew, which is in Argentina), and released after a couple of days when it became clear that the two actual bandits had been killed in San Vicente, with the Aramayo payroll in their possession. The fact that Murray and Walters were armed is neither here nor there. Going armed in the Andes was not unusual.

Murray and Walters are discussed at length in Digging Up (2003), and have been the subject of much palavering here at OWR. Factoid of note: Pero said that Murray & Walters had slept in Cotani the evening of the 3rd and were leaving the 4th, which eliminates them as suspects in the holdup, which happened the 4th at Huaca Hua˝usca, northwest of Salo.

Dump into the OWR search box, Walters, Cotani, Salo, etc., and read away to your heart's content. Dan

PS Here's one example of a previous Walters & Murray post, by what's his name:

Daniel Buck
did Pero see Walker & Murray?
Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:19am
108.18.76.14

Bob,
you asked a good question -- "Now since Murray and Walters were never seen by Carlos Pero, we do not know if he knew them or not. Could he have identified them?" -- the answer to which I had to look up, since none of this is at my fingertipss anymore. (Very little is at my finger tips anymore.)

Carlos Pero encountered Murray and Walker as he approached Cotani or in Cotani (he gave two different versions) the afternoon of 4 November 1908. (See Pero/Aramayo letters from Cotani, 4 & 6 November in Digging Up. Murray & Walter were heading south to Tupiza & Argentina, or so they later said, and Pero was going north to Quechisla. He did not mention their names -- he probably didn't know their names -- but he did say they had slept in Cotani the previous evening, 3 November, and they were leaving that day, the 4th, heading south. Pero mentioned the woman's saddle they had, that they were armed, and the incident in Cotani with Faustino Duran & the lost revolver, saying that the pair were hauling Duran to the police in Tupiza. That more or less comports with what Murray & Walker told the authorities after their arrest, although the details of the Duran incident change depending on who is doing the telling.

In my previous OWR response, I mistakenly said that Murray & Walker were arrested in Salo on 4 November. (Mea culpa.) They were arrested on the morning of the 5th in Salo, and presented to the authorities in Tupiza that evening at 7 p.m. .

Did Pero see Murray and Walker during the period 5-9 November they were in custody? No. Best I can tell, reconstructing Pero's itinerary durig that period (based on the correspondence of Pero & other Aramayo officials) he was in Cotani on the 4th & 5th, Quechisla from the 5th through the 8th, on the 8th went to San Vicente, and had not returned to Quechisla by the 10th.

By the way, after Murray & Walters were released on the 9th, they checked into the Hotel Terminus in Tupiza because they are so listed in the 11 November issue of the El Choroloque. I don't doubt they went directly from custody to the hotel for a bath, shave, and cold beer. El Chorolque was published every two to four days, usually twice a week. By the next issue, the 15th, Murray and Walters were gone.

Speaking of El Chorolque, a few years ago a Tupiza historian found Santiago Lowe's name in the 31 October edition, which pushes back a couple of days the date that Lowe registered at the hotel. He's not listed in the prior edition, 29 October, so he could have checked in the 29th or 30th. This improves the coincidence between A.G. Francis account of Lowe's activities and El Chorolque's account, and makes it highly unlikely with Murray or Walters was Lowe. Dan






  • The real question is the other owtlaws Pat, Tue Apr 10 10:08am
    Murray and Walters who were Butch and another outlaw. They were arrested at town (Salo) to where the robbery took place. Taken to Trelew and held 3 days. The entire report is given. This is the men... more
    • Re: The real question is the other owtlaws — Daniel Buck, Tue Apr 10 10:48am
      • Dan,AmigoPat, Tue Apr 10 11:42am
        It is your interpretation. I can send them entire police report to anyone who wants so they can read for themselves. It is not as you say. My hand got the best of me : Tupiza
        • Re: Dan,AmigoDaniel Buck, Tue Apr 10 12:00pm
          Pat, on the question of where Murray and Walters were on the night of the 3rd, I'm not interpreting anything, I'm reporting what Carlos Pero said. One could make a simpler argument, one that... more
          • That's your interpretation.Pat, Tue Apr 10 2:42pm
            I prefer to have others reading themselves. You have no proof that Walter's and Murray is English, Gringo'.s or martians. Nor you you know who they really were? No passports, no jobs, nothing. No do... more
            • we fight with the evidence we have . . . .Daniel Buck, Tue Apr 10 3:52pm
              Pat, Wow, you re absolutely correct. I was not in the Tupiza region in November 1908. If I had been I would have bastinadoed the hell out of Murray & Walters and got the truth out of them. For all we ... more
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