Hi Vince, In short, mules are way better than horses in mountain and canyon country. I won't bore life out of all in this thread by quoting likes of Thomas Moore, Henry Daly, masters of packing and equine usage, but to quote our (Richard Adamson & mine's) book "Riding The Outlaw Trail in the Footsteps of Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid), "mules are hardier, more agile, stronger, can haul heavier loads over longer distances and more demanding terrain. They need less grain, can subsist on vegetation available, are faster walkers with excellent recuperative powers and are intelligent enough to recognize danger - to avoid it"... Bear in mind the outlaws' modus operandi factoring their overall success rate. They were equine smart. And why they lasted around 19 years in the hold-up business. Simon
Distance can vary by terrain and other factors, but a mule can travel roughly 20 miles per day, and a horse 30. Posses or other riders were known to do 120 miles/day more than once in Butch's time.... more
Two Mules for Butch & Sundance — Simon Casson,Fri Apr 13 7:23am
Hi Chris, Good question, but doubtful if anyone could definitively answer. Relays always pose a problem. Holding horses. This was the biggest challenge we had, keeping them secure. And hobbles do... more
Hi Simon, Bought the kindle edition yesterday afternoon and finished most of it last night. Well done. Not very many people would do what you did. Im jealous. I was talking to a hand that works for... more
Hi Chris, Thanks for buying the kindle version. If you become immersed, get a 2nd edition book - you can pencil notations. The ride was hard graft. Our outfitters helped two Swedes mount a similar... more
Thanks Simon, Again very jealous of your adventure. Glad to hear you would use a combo of both horses and mules to fit the terrain. As I said earlier, thats what my cowboy buddy said. My kindle... more
Chris, you are trying to pound a square peg in a round hole. And you bring up once again the "if they were smart" angle, i.e, woulda, coulda, shoulda. What we have is what happened, not what we think ... more
You are using the wrong puzzle pieces Dan. All of the info does not add up to it being them. "Crime is an unforgiving business" that is something I do agree with you on. Butch and SK knew that as... more
His partner Tex, and all the other outlaws in the area. Grice did Rio Gallegos and other robberies. He was in Chile with Sundance and said Butch had gone to BA . By 1908 Butch was in Tupezia with... more
Pat, Herbert Grice as I recall was back in the US by 1906 -- correct? -- thus out of the picture in terms of Bolivia. As for Butch Cassidy being the Englishman Frank Murray or the North American Ray... more
The song is now in my head . I will try to send Vince my pics from my album to show you what I was doing 30 years ago in Az on the Mogollon. On my ranch I had a variety of animals. But my most... more
Hi Pat, Would love to see pictures of your outfit in the Mogollon country. We loved the ride from the WS into the Blue and cutting through the rim. Damn hard country - as you know! We spoke to many... more
How lovely it is to hear from you. As you know I have your first edition of your book with all the crib notes in it. I will try to get those pics out to you . As it know it is very rough on me right... more
Hi Pat, Thanks for yours. Hoping you're recovering well..?Keeping active will speed progress. Look forward to the pictures. I envy you the mustang. They are so hardy. The Blue Wilderness is another... more
Vince you act like horses can't do anything. I live in pretty rocky harsh terrain, horses get up the mountain just fine. Let me ask a serious question for Dan. Was the posse that was looking for the... more
Bones was a horse lent by Tom Klumker, an old friend/packer/outfitter from Glenwood - neighbors to the McKeens at the Wilson-Stevens (WS Ranch). A tremendous mare, with huge stamina and an excellent... more
What a great name lol. Again, I agree mules are great for packing. For riding and specifically escaping, depending on the terrain, a horse would be better in certain situations. best, Chris
Chris, Riding a mule in the Bolivian Andes was common for a variety of reasons. Your arguing that Cassidy and Sundance would have been foolish to ride mules in the Andes flies in the face of the... more
Chris, there were a number of posses looking for the Aramayo bandits, but no information that I recall about what kinds of mounts the members of the posses were riding. Could have been mules, horses, ... more
Vince, thanks. I think, tho, that your numbers on how far a mule/horse can travel in a day are on the low side. On the other hand, terrain and altitude have to be factored in as well. Riding in high, ... more
CORRECTION: "One of the posses crisscrossing the region north of Tupiza happened to lodge in San Vicente the afternoon of 6 November [not 5 November], and the two bandits had the bad luck to come... more
I like this quote from a page you provided, Mules are steady and more surefooted than their equine counterparts. Mules are dainty steppers and take small, sure footed steps, a quality that is... more
Your right on most counts Vince. A mule is a wonderful creature. The only thing you left out is how slow they are compared to a horse. And...saying a horse to a mule is a 2wd to a 4wd is not a good... more
I have an email in to Simon CAsson to ask a rough estimate of his daily riding rate on the bandit trails. Dan can match that against Butch and SD's mule travel rate after the robbery to see how that... more
Hi Vince, Good question. I'll have to unearth my original notebooks with all the details. We kept a record of costs for many reasons. As the expedition was a human risk, the financials had to be... more
Hi Vince, I found the old OT notepads. Deep in store, with the horse head gear! My answer for those who can't see it on Facebook... "well....in the high country mules are way better. the high Andes... more
Chris, if you read up on mules, especially mules in high mountain terrain, you'll find that they are a better choice than horses. That's why horses are preferred in the Kentucky Derby, and mules are... more
if you read up on mules in high mountain terrain, you'll find that they are a better choice than horses. That's why horses are preferred in the Kentucky Derby, and mules are preferred in the Bolivian ... more
Actually, the Ducati is a great example, faster than all get out, except on certain terrains. On Mount Everest, foot power is preferred, not to mention faster. As well, speed is not an infinite... more
Its a two wheel drive vehicle on a mountain. To say a horse is a two wheel drive animal only meant for speed is stupid. Come out to my ranch and Ill show you what horses can do on a steep mountain.... more
Chris, You raised the speed issue. Speed is not everything. Sometimes a canoe is preferred to a horse; on foot to a Ducati. It all depends. Sure-footedness and stamina are important in high altitude... more
There should be a law against horses in the Andes. You might want to contact all the businesses that have horse riding excursions in Bolivia. Tell them immediately to switch to mules. The tourists... more
Chris, That's because there are very few mules left in Bolivia. (I've only seen two ever in multiple trips over 50+ years.) Mules were done in by the internal combustion engine. In 1800s and early... more