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Daniel Buck
Re: Sundance's Monograms
Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:20am
71.126.136.67

Vince,
scribbled on an small card in the Pinkerton files are some undated, handwritten notes, titled " Desc Harry/Alonzo from Chas. Ayers Dixon, Wyo." Among the notes: "Marks his clothes 'H.L.' with worsted thread."

Worsted thread best I can tell, is medium weight wool yarn. Per Donna Ernst (2009), "Chas Ayers" was a Wyoming rancher, stock inspector, and Pinkerton informant, code name "Stamp." The Pinkertons spelled it Ayers, but his actual name was Charles E. Ayer.

Which clothes SK so threaded and exactly where we know not. Might have been interior for laundry marking purposes. Nothing like it appears in the two excellent photos we have of SK from Swartz and DeYoung.

In any event, the post-shootout inventory of the two bandits' possessions hardly qualifies as San Vicente CSI. None of their actual clothes are listed at all; I assume they were buried fully clothed. They were even buried with their hats, per Carlos Pero. A couple of guns were noted by make, but not serial number. A watch with serial number, but no make, another watch, no make and no serial number. A notebook, but nothing about what was in the book. Edward Graydon (possibly A.G. Francis) and Enrique Hutcheon's cards were listed, but no indication the authorities interviewed Graydon or Hutcheon about what their connection was to the pair. (Both Graydon and Hutcheon, by the way, were alive in Tupiza after the shootout, to spare everyone a leap down that rabbit hole.)

In other words, the absence of HL in the inventory does not mean anything one way or the other.

If only BC&SK had been wearing photo IDS around their necks. Would have spared us lots of agony. Dan

PS Ayer gave SK's height as 5' 10" and BC's as 5' 8".

  • Re: Sundance's MonogramsVince Garcia, Sat Apr 14 6:17pm
    Wasn't he supposedly monogramming things when he was ranching and living/working (maybe in a bunkhouse) with other men? A similar thing is done by GIs when they are in the army barracks but they... more
    • Re: Sundance's MonogramsBob Goodwin, Thu Apr 19 5:45am
      The Frank Hadsell papers scribbled in Hadsell's daybook for 1902 has what the Pinkertons probably used as their description for Longabaugh. "Harry Longbaugh alias Frank Jones. German decent age 34, 5 ... more
      • Bravo to Bob and Dan on this Mark Mszanski, Fri Apr 20 7:36am
        Interesting finds on Frank Jones ( SK ) - Bob - Believe at one point you had a bead on him around 1900 spending time in Texas ( Galveston ) area but cannot recall if the year is correct. Sincerely,
        • Mark*ChrisV, Fri Apr 20 8:24am
          Lets put an end to this. Have you personally seen the SK and Etta signatures at Kew? Yes or No
          • Chris the answer is yesPat, Sat Apr 21 9:30am
            By not answering he tells us that he went to Kew , forged the signatures , then went back to NY and ordered them from St John's. And by extension the Kew knows it but doesn't want the scandal known.
            • AgreeChrisV, Sat Apr 21 10:06am
              Lets just say there are others besides Kew looking into it and they dont care if there is a scandal
      • Re: Sundance's MonogramsDaniel Buck, Thu Apr 19 6:16am
        Bob, Interesting. Who got what from whom is the question, or are they separate observations? The undated "Chas Ayers" card in the Pinkerton files is similar but some differences. Donna Ersnt (2009),... more
    • Re: Sundance's Monograms — Daniel Buck, Sun Apr 15 11:20am
      • Re: Sundance's MonogramsChrisV, Mon Apr 16 5:05am
        Wish they would have taken a better inventory. Im assuming all items have been lost to time. The binoculars intrigue me as they are expensive and most people I know even today mark them so people... more
        • Re: Sundance's MonogramsDaniel Buck, Mon Apr 16 5:34am
          Chris, as I've pointed out before, the shorter vs. taller observations came from Remigio Sánchez, the eyewitness who saw them when they arrived in San Vicente. I think it's reasonable to conclude... more
          • Re: Sundance's MonogramsChrisV, Mon Apr 16 5:38am
            ok. Still not a big enough difference to categorize one as tall and one as short IMO but Im sure you will disagree which is fine.
            • Re: Sundance's MonogramsDaniel Buck, Mon Apr 16 5:56am
              Chris, We don't know exactly how tall BC&SK actually were, in bare feet, shoes, or boots (or stilletos), so the discussion is a bit theoretical. That said, if the difference was two inches, that's... more
    • Re: Sundance's MonogramsChrisV, Sun Apr 15 7:15am
      I dont have my sources here to say Vince. Wasn't there something Pinkertons put out on it? Along with him liking Ralston cereal? As far as GIs doing that during the war. You bring up a good point. I... more
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