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Daniel Buck
dadaesque forensics
Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:44pm

Not sure if you understand the Digging Up Butch and Sundance narrative structure. The story is told via anecdotes and interviews, some of them contradictory. It's a story unfolding as people tell their versions of what happened

I can see, by the way, why the Milton Roberts's 5 November 1901 brand filing document showing H.A. Place's signature might have caused a certain apoplexy on your part. Place's presence in Cholila in early November 1901 rather undermines the idea that he was posing for a railroad crew photo in Utah in October 1901. Martin Underwood's middle initial was A. for Albert, and the letter on the document looks to be an A., though it is possible Roberts got it wrong and wrote H. The two letters are cursively similar, though it looks like an A to me.

I did get a laugh out of your implication that because H.A. Place's signature on the undated land filing is similar to his actual signature that, therefore, it must be a forgery. This is groundbreaking, dadaesque forensic handwriting analysis: if the signatures are similar they must be forgeries.

  • Spoiling a Good Yarn...ChrisV, Thu Aug 30 2:49pm
    More documents. These come from the article “New Wild Bunch Documents Surface” by Buck and Meadows. The article is roughly a year and a half after “Leaving Cholila.” Just like “Leaving Cholila” this... more
    • Re: Spoiling a Good Yarn...Daniel Buck, Thu Aug 30 6:53pm
      I'm glad we cleared that up, that H.A. Place actually signed the November 1901 document. I didn't mention the two Gardner signatures because I thought I'd caused you enough angina for the day. People ... more
      • Re: Spoiling a Good Yarn...Anonymous, Thu Aug 30 8:15pm
        The Nov 1901 signature matches the undocumented scribble on a piece of paper that anyone could have planted in the Pinkerton file. How convenient. I think that sums up the similarity. I'm glad you've ... more
        • what I wrote vs. what you postedDaniel Buck, Fri Aug 31 4:21am
          What I wrote: "People do put each others names on documents, on petitions, open letters, for example, especially in an early 1900s frontier region where not every one is accessible. Another even more ... more
          • CNNChrisV, Fri Aug 31 5:20am
            Lets see the estancia horse purchase. Never seen it You forgot to mention the July 18, 1901 document the pair sign giving D Brand authority to work on their behalf. Very important for your theory.... more
        • You never disappoint ChrisV, Thu Aug 30 8:23pm
          "I'm glad you've acknowledged the likelihood that BC and SK didn't sign the 1901 docs in person because they weren't accessible. Hmm, I wonder where they could be? No witnesses in 1901, only signed... more
      • Re: Spoiling a Good Yarn...ChrisV, Thu Aug 30 7:46pm
        We didn't clear that up. The November 5, 1901 document is a poorly done forgery. The other undated document is fine IMO but should still be looked at by a expert. As far as John Gardner's signatures, ... more
    • dadaesque forensics — Daniel Buck, Thu Aug 30 3:44pm
      • Re: dadaesque forensicsChrisV, Fri Aug 31 5:00am
        Butch and John Gardner were BFF's right? I think we both agree on that. Here is a bigger shot of the land document. If Gardner wasn't there, it would be logical Butch would have signed for him. He... more
        • Re: dadaesque forensicsDaniel Buck, Fri Aug 31 5:13am
          Chris, Butch Cassidy and John Gardner were BFFs? I did not know that. For those of you without access to the, BFF means either Best Friends Forever or Big Fat F**k. Either way,... more
          • Page 11 of your own bookChrisV, Fri Aug 31 6:09am
            This shouldn't be a shock to you as its in your book. You wrote that Butch and Gardner grew quite close. They were even magazine buddies. haha Gardner hated Sundance.... Strange that they would be... more
          • fight or flightChrisV, Fri Aug 31 5:57am
            You didn't know they were friends? You might want to study up on Wild Bunch history and your comebacks.
      • Re: dadaesque forensicsDeborah, Thu Aug 30 7:36pm
        It looks like an A and that the pen/ink skipped at the uppermost curve. It also looks as though it was done left to right as the ink looks trailed off and feathered on the bottom left of the A.
      • Re: dadaesque forensicsChrisV, Thu Aug 30 5:13pm
        Thats nice that your book was done in such an impartial way. Ive noticed that about you, always listening to others and presenting both sides. Thanks dan Your still bringing up the RR photo. You... more
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