vince garcia
Re: Good Analysis Bob
Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:22pm
2001:558:6012:3e:bd28:ed27:b70b:57b8

No it's not a really a good analysis.
From what Nicholas found, the couple may have gotten married a few days later and are NOT the Butlers (I think Ella was late 20s but could be wrong but that makes no difference), but then disappear from history as completely as EP does after 1906.

But putting the woman aside, what my research does point to pretty well is that the three men in our story are most likely the Currie gang, for which there is quite a bit of anecdotal and even eyewitness testimony were in the area, and one flat out claim by the head of a detective agency that Harvey Logan was involved in the robbery itself in some capacity, for which there would be no reason to conclude but for (in my speculation) someone recognizing him as the undersized man in this incident when the agency head showed photos of Logan to local sheriffs in 1899.

So if the Currie gang is in the area and tied to the robbery (for which an argument can thus be made as Logan was actually NAMED in it, though we cannot absolutely prove it), the woman who looks like EP IMO by default becomes EP barring absolute exclusionary evidence, which we don't have because we know nothing certain about her.. (We can argue against it based on some factors we can choose to take for granted but we can't prove them since we have no 100% certain proof of her vital statistics nor her actual maiden name.) So of course, none of this is incontrovertible, but we're dealing with an event lost to history and a mosaic that must be pieced together from available pieces, and those pieces lead me to the Currie gang, and thus to EP. But even if you removed EP from the mix, I am 100% certain the three men were the Currie gang and stand on that. Were we not talking about EP, I doubt anyone would be arguing much with me much about this if I left it at that

  • Good Analysis BobMark A Mszanski, Fri Feb 22 7:25am
    Bob and Vince - I had always thought the woman known to us as Ethel Place would be unlikely in this scenario. There is no direct connection as I recall to SK in this scenario - I did however remember ... more
    • Re: Good Analysis Bob — vince garcia, Fri Feb 22 5:22pm
      • Yes, good analysisBob Goodwin, Tue Feb 26 6:07am
        Vince, I never said that Mont and Ella Butler were John F. Ackley and Flora Bailey. Ackley and Bailey were just some random Kansas couple getting married in SLC. If Flora Bailey, soon to be Flora... more
        • btwvince garcia, Wed Feb 27 4:52am
          btw, EB had kind of a bad reputation and notoriety going back to the mid 90s that I know of. I might suppose she would be recognized by the sheriff and marshal, or someone else, (not even dealing... more
        • Re: Yes, good analysisvince garcia, Tue Feb 26 7:32pm
          Well, as you know, I disagree they were a KS couple. They CLAIMED they were, but the girl does not appear in KS birth records. Plenty of guys under the man's name are in records so no help there. I'm ... more
          • re:Bob Goodwin, Thu Feb 28 5:43am
            So your contention is that Flora, the Lady that turned up in Springville the day of the robbery was traveling under her married name Ackley before she was actually married, and not her own maiden... more
            • re:vince garcia, Thu Feb 28 5:05pm
              I think it is very possible though not 100% conclusive. Yes they would have been in on the robbery. I'm saying the three guys were the Currie gang. The girl I believe was EP but could have been... more
              • re:Bob Goodwin, Mon Mar 4 6:37am
                Thanks Vince. I think you have convinced me that Ell Butler was probably not involved in the Springville Robbery. Though her husband Mont Butler probably was. It also appears that Etta Place was not... more
                • re:vince garcia, Tue Mar 5 3:37am
                  I would question it can be proven that john ackley is the right ackley because there were so many of them around and the girl can't be IDed in census records. So whomever they are, they have to... more
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