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brittanyavery
Re: Grammar Instruction
Tue Oct 27, 2015 20:24
184.21.165.184

I do not teach grammar explicitly. My first reason was because I could not find time in the day (or find the motivation) to drag out a grammar workbook and solely work on grammar out of context. I would sometimes feel guilty, and think I was doing a disservice to my students because they weren't getting straight-up grammar instruction since I was incorporating it in our writing workshop time. After talking to other teachers who have done explicitly grammar instruction, reflecting on my own teaching, and looking at my students writing, I felt I had "accidentally" done the right thing by not explicitly teaching grammar. These articles made me want to celebrate because they confirmed what I had suspected! Grammar within context is the same as any skill within context. Students are always doing to be more successful and enjoy doing something they feel is relevant and is associated with something they can relate to. What better way to teach grammar than with their very own experiences in their very own words?

  • Grammar Instruction - koppenhaverd, Sun Oct 18 23:42
    Many (maybe all?) of you are required to teach children to write better. After you have the 3 articles for Task #4, join the discussion on grammar instruction. Do you teach grammar explicitly to your ... more
    • Grammar Instruction - walshjm2, Tue Nov 3 05:08
      I do not teach grammar explicitly to my students. I am not required to do so by anyone. I teach grammar through writing and pulling from what the child is writing to build in those grammar lessons.... more
    • Re: Grammar Instruction - brittanyavery, Tue Oct 27 20:24
    • Grammar and Language Experience Approach - haleyferrell, Mon Oct 26 11:39
      Hello all, I have a question. I am working with one student and we are creating LEA's everyday. He really likes telling me stories that I am writing down for him. The problem I am running into is his ... more
      • Re: Grammer and... - abramsjm, Wed Nov 4 21:49
        Hi Haley, I read your question and was wondering if he really is focusing in on the initial sounds of each word. It sounds so simplistic, but LEA's are so short and explicit that I have found by... more
      • LEA method - koppenhaverd, Mon Oct 26 15:30
        Roach Van Allen is the creator of the Language Experience Approach. He recommended writing down exactly what the student says without correction. For exactly the reason you've identified. LEA is a... more
        • LEA stories - haleyferrell, Thu Nov 5 08:16
          Thank you for the reply and since then I have not corrected him when he tells me his story. He enjoys reading his stories because he reads them fluently with accuracy. We have about 4 stories now and ... more
        • Re: LEA method - megangouge, Mon Nov 2 16:10
          Thank you for clearing this up. I also had the same question as Haley because I have a student (well actually quite a few) who do not speak grammatically correct so I was unsure how to proceed.
          • Re: LEA method - candithompson, Mon Nov 2 16:12
            I would have also corrected my students. I understand that we are trying to connect spoken word to text. Glad to know this!
    • Grammar Instruction - abramsjm, Sun Oct 25 15:39
      Having been a struggling grammar student myself, I was very interested in what the research would say regarding the how, what's of teaching grammar. I was very pleased to see that the overall current ... more
      • Writing in college - haleyferrell, Mon Oct 26 11:25
        Joann, I had the same experience when I was a freshman at a community college. I was never really taught how to write a meaningful story/paper/anything until college. I was never proud of my work... more
        • Writing - abramsjm, Tue Oct 27 12:47
          Haley I feel better knowing others felt like I did. For many students, (and I was one of them), writing and math seemed to define what kind of student you were in the eyes of many teachers. I was... more
          • Sentence Diagrams - Martha Brown, Tue Oct 27 22:36
            I had to do the sentence diagrams in English and it was not my favorite part. We were given sentences and then to diagram, we made a line and put the subject and verb. With lines drawn on the bottom... more
        • Grammar Instruction vs. Conferencing with Writers - shannonsilver, Mon Oct 26 21:26
          I was taught grammar in school and never connected it's content to my writing. I never said to myself..."I need an adverb in this sentence or this predicate doesn't sound right." I didn't really... more
          • Shannon, you made me almost laugh out loud, and want to "amen!" reading your post! I never, ever, connected grammar with my own writing as a student either. Did anyone? Please speak up if you did.... ... more
        • Grammar Instruction vs. Conferencing with Writers - shannonsilver, Mon Oct 26 21:25
          I was taught grammar in school and never connected it's content to my writing. I never said to myself..."I need an adverb in this sentence or this predicate doesn't sound right" I didn't really... more
          • Re: Grammer Instr. vs. ... - abramsjm, Tue Oct 27 12:58
            When I read your post it made me think back to how I was taught grammar not only in English...but in Spanish classes as well..all rules! I hated it. Years later...I returned to school at the college... more
    • Re: Grammar Instruction - byrdaw, Sat Oct 24 14:27
      I do not teacher grammar explicitly in any of my classes.I am not required to teach grammar. After students compose several written pieces of work, I instruct students to choose a piece to publish.... more
      • Writing experiences in elementary - haleyferrell, Sun Oct 25 08:13
        Adele, Like you I know the demands that are placed on our table and being an exceptional children's teacher we have a big gap to close yet we only have 30 minutes a day with out students! I admire... more
        • Experiences - megangouge, Mon Nov 2 12:45
          Haley, I feel like my situation is similar as yours with only having students for 45 minutes and having to cover reading, writing and other language arts skills/standards; this is a constant struggle ... more
        • Writing experiences in elementary - Martha Brown, Mon Oct 26 23:38
          This all has made me so much more aware of how important it is for the younger child when we label their drawings and write the story they tell about the drawing. Through the teacher modeling, the... more
        • Experiences - Anonymous, Mon Oct 26 11:01
          Haley, I feel like my situation is similar as yours with only having students for 45 minutes and having to cover reading, writing and other language arts skills/standards; this is a constant struggle ... more
        • Re: Writing experiences in elementary - byrdaw, Sun Oct 25 13:16
          I believe that you are blessed to have so many teacher working toward their degrees. I believe our students are the greatest beneficiaries of the work that we complete in our college classes. I love... more
    • Grammar Instruction - Melanie McLeod, Thu Oct 22 19:58
      I feel relieved that I haven't given my students a disadvantage by not explicitly teaching grammar instruction effectively throughout my teaching career. I never enjoyed teaching the activity sheets... more
      • Re: Grammar Instruction - byrdaw, Sat Oct 24 14:32
        I agree with the inability to apply the explicit grammar instruction. I believe students develop required skills through experience. One will continue to repeat errors in writing if they are not... more
        • Speaking Communication - Melanie McLeod, Sun Oct 25 17:09
          Adele: I agree. Modeling correct grammar is very important during the school day. Also, students must be given the opportunity to discuss and share their thoughts and opinions about topics being... more
      • Instruction - megangouge, Fri Oct 23 08:39
        I agree that speaking and listening skills through communication are our goal in grammar instruction. How do we reach the students who have poor speaking skills for example, using the incorrect... more
        • Speaking Grammar - Melanie McLeod, Sat Oct 24 12:34
          Hey, Megan: I agree that it is difficult to teach writing skills to students who have incorrect speaking grammar or a speech disability. With regards to the speech issue, our phonics program should... more
          • Speaking Grammar - shannonsilver, Mon Oct 26 22:15
            I agree with both of you. In this county more students are hearing improper grammar because of where we live. I haven't figured out wether it is a cultural reason to speak that way or if they really... more
            • Everyday Grammar - Melanie McLeod, Tue Oct 27 05:50
              Shannon: I agree....people in our area tend to use incorrect grammar in their everyday speech. Therefore, it's imperative that we consistently model and correct any misuse of grammar used within the... more
    • grammar - candithompson, Tue Oct 20 15:29
      I don't feel like I teach grammar explicitly. I tend to teach it through writing and reading at different times depending when it comes up. I think that helps improve their writing, when they know... more
      • Re: grammar - brittanyavery, Tue Oct 27 20:42
        Candy, you said: "Students must first enjoy writing so teachers can then build on that to expand their writing abilities. If we have students pick out verbs, nouns etc I don't think they will enjoy... more
        • Re: grammar - candithompson, Wed Oct 28 16:10
          Yes! I have recently had parents ask me how much they should correct their child's writing. I think it's important for us to model making mistakes too. I have seen my students confidence boost so... more
          • Re: grammar - byrdaw, Sun Nov 1 06:22
            Your students are so blessed to have a teacher like you! I completely agree with you on the idea of letting students "just write." I have observed my own students look at writing time with excitement ... more
            • Re: grammar - candithompson, Mon Nov 2 10:25
              It has made a big difference for my students. I think we put a lot pressure on our students even when we don't realize it. We have so much on us and students are expected to do so much. I know that I ... more
              • Re: writing - abramsjm, Sat Nov 7 17:27
                I too see a difference these past two years with my students level of excitement about writing. Prior to Dr. Frye's class, I taught it in a more traditional way which included grammar and... more
                • Re: writing - candithompson, Mon Nov 9 15:17
                  I have started persuasive writing, which my kids are loving. However, they have asked me if they can have time to write "their stories" too. I have never had this before.
      • Grammer - Martha Brown, Wed Oct 21 22:41
        With younger children, I do not teach grammar explicitly however when writing for them or on artwork, it is important to model complete sentences and proper grammar. While reading the articles, I... more
        • Re: Grammer - byrdaw, Sun Nov 1 06:33
          I have also found how children can become engaged in writing. Writing time is essential for my students. I literally watch students become absorbed in what they are writing and mentally travel to... more
        • Teachable Moments - haleyferrell, Thu Oct 22 09:17
          Martha, I agree with you that teachers need to find teachable moments for grammar instruction. I feel that teachers need to thread it into their daily teaching so that students will naturally correct ... more
          • Re: Teachable Moments - candithompson, Fri Oct 23 13:41
            Haley, I agree with you that so much can be done through modeled writing. I knew modeling was important, but I didn't realize how important and how much we can teach through modeling until last year... more
          • Teachable Moments - Martha Brown, Thu Oct 22 22:41
            Teachers thinking out loud while modeling the thought process for the younger students is very beneficial. This is great for daily grammar without the explicit instruction. I feel this is so helpful... more
            • Re: Teachable moments - abramsjm, Sun Oct 25 15:47
              I agree with your statement about reading to students models correct grammar patterns and speech. I notice the quiet in the room when I read is almost a magical kind of silence, their eyes get as big ... more
              • Read Alouds - shannonsilver, Mon Oct 26 21:36
                I LOVE READ ALOUDS. What a great way to teach reading and writing by using high quality literature to expose children to. they can learn so many writing techniques from other writers. I myself, love... more
                • Re:read alouds - joanneabrams, Tue Oct 27 12:36
                  Books on tape...I also love books on tape! I have used many books on tape for my ESL or EC students, and they love them! I had a whole collection that had the book and the cassettes, and my students... more
                • Re:read alouds - joanneabrams, Tue Oct 27 12:34
                  Books on tape...I also love books on tape! I have used many books on tape for my ESL or EC students, and they love them! I had a whole collection that had the book and the cassettes, and my students... more
                  • Read Alouds - walshjm2, Tue Nov 3 05:25
                    In my opinion being read to is one of the greatest ways for any child to become a reader and a writer as well as, when the time comes, a better reader and writer. The use of Mentor Texts and modeling ... more
                    • Love of Reading - Melanie McLeod, Wed Nov 4 05:58
                      Jennifer: I agree that using read-clouds to foster literacy development and skills is of vital importance. From students hearing the modeling of fluent reading and discussing plot, they become much... more
              • learning models - koppenhaverd, Mon Oct 26 15:37
                Reading aloud is a powerful way to put conventional grammar and syntax in children's heads and experience. Mentor texts are a systematic way of teaching children writing skills from models. They are... more
                • Re:Read alouds - joanne abrams, Tue Oct 27 12:27
                  Thank you for your input about considering more than just books as Mentor Texts. Although, I do use LEA's for writing, and I do write model sentences etc. I really had not ever thought of them in the ... more
            • Re: Teachable Moments - byrdaw, Sat Oct 24 14:37
              I concur with your thoughts on exposing students to various texts. Reading texts aloud is a task that I attempt weekly. I believe it is beneficial for all students to hear texts with rich language.... more
            • Modeling - megangouge, Fri Oct 23 08:43
              I have always known that modeling was a "best practice" and of course, in elementary grades it is done constantly. However, I didn't always model my writing to students until having Dr. Frye's class.
              • Re: Modeling - candithompson, Fri Oct 23 13:44
                I posted about the same thing that you just stated. I feel that I can use modeling much more effectively now than before. I am adding so much more than just a quick journal.
          • Teachable moments - Regina, Thu Oct 22 21:51
            Haley, I agree that the teacher thinking out loud while modeling their own writing can be a great opportunity to incorporate grammar. I model my own writing in my writer's notebook and there are so... more
            • Explicit Modeling - Melanie McLeod, Sat Oct 24 12:39
              Regina: I agree that modeling is the key to successful grammar/writing instruction. While students hear their teacher think about what he/she wants to write, then verbalizing what must be written,... more
          • Grammar - megangouge, Thu Oct 22 10:41
            I have always thought of grammar just as labeling sentences, knowing parts of speech, etc... However, after reading the articles I know that grammar is so much more than that. It is the actual... more
            • Re: Grammar - abramsjm, Sun Oct 25 15:58
              That's so true...there is so much to grammar, that it's easy to get so wrapped up in the actual correctness of it all, that you lose the real point of writing...which is to express yourself.... more
            • Grammer - Martha Brown, Thu Oct 22 23:11
              Megan My prior view of grammar instruction was not what it is now. After reading the articles and really thinking about the research, and looking at the teaching, supporting, and strategies that... more
    • Engaged - megangouge, Mon Oct 19 17:38
      I 100% agree with the statement from the Does Bad "Grammar" Instruction Make Writing Worse? "The best grammar instruction happens when studnets are so engaged in a writing project that they want to... more
      • Re: Engaged - brittanyavery, Wed Oct 28 20:22
        Megan, I found the same thing was true last year when we did persuasive writing! When we wrote our class letter to the PE teacher asking him to let them play on the monkey bars on the playground,... more
      • Re: Engaged - candithompson, Fri Oct 23 13:50
        It is hard to make younger students understand that their stories are worth writing about. My favorite writing to teach is persuasive writing as well. I agree with you that the kids are involved and... more
        • Re: Engaged - martha Brown, Sat Oct 24 22:37
          You make such a great point with the persuasive writing. This is a good way for younger students to see the results of their writing and what can be accomplished through writing. This provides... more
      • Embedded Learning - Melanie McLeod, Thu Oct 22 20:03
        I agree that grammar instruction should be completely embedded within contextual writing for specific purposes. The more that children are engaged in the process and act of writing, I feel that... more
      • Writing is important - haleyferrell, Thu Oct 22 12:12
        Megan, Like you, I spent a lot of time with a kindergarten student working on personal narratives. He loved to draw and was very artistic however when it came to writing about his story he struggled. ... more
    • grammar - amanda grindstaff, Mon Oct 19 06:50
      After reading the three articles, I would like to say I wish they had told our sixth grade teacher not to make us diagram sentences. Just kidding. I do not teach grammar explicitly because I teach... more
      • Grammar questions - koppenhaverd, Mon Oct 19 14:31
        Amanda, why do you think kids need to know parts of speech? The connection to writing sentences is not clear to me. Re: grammar instruction. We have known for over 50 years that explicit grammar... more
        • Grammar - Amanda grindstaff, Mon Oct 19 14:50
          To be honest I guess it's partly more because I feel like it will be lost if we don't pass it along. I don't feel like it needs to be taught outside and in and of itself. And I agree it's useless... more
          • spelling - candithompson, Fri Oct 23 13:56
            Amanda, I have thought about spelling test for a while now. Parents always ask me first thing about spelling test and when will I send their words home. Do you think it is the fact that most parents... more
            • Spelling - Amanda grindstaff, Sat Oct 24 00:23
              Candi, I honestly think after doing this a while that spelling is the one thing most parents are familiar with and can help their kids do because it hasn't changed much over the years. They know how... more
              • Re: Spelling - candithompson, Wed Oct 28 16:13
                Thanks! I find it interesting how much parents want spelling homework and tests. It is one of the few things that has not changed in school today. I now see how they feel helpful and needed at this.
          • Don't want it to be lost - koppenhaverd, Mon Oct 19 16:07
            So essentially your argument is "if it was bad enough for me, it's bad enough for my kids" :-) You're a bright, creative, thoughtful teacher and mother. I bet you can find something more useful to... more
            • grammar - amanda grindstaff, Mon Oct 19 16:19
              I truly feel like teaching grammar is a waste of time and I do feel like it is more important to teach them how to plan, draft, revise, edit and publish and to be more creative and in time the other... more
          • writing/grammar/handwriting - amanda grindstaff, Mon Oct 19 15:15
            And further more...I do see how when a student is worried about being a perfectionist when they can go back and fix everything - I can see how that would take away from the creativity, but I just... more
            • Forget grammar; love writing - Melanie McLeod, Thu Oct 22 20:16
              Hi, Amanda: I have always felt as if I "was doing wrong" by not explicitly teaching the weekly grammar skill to my students. However, especially since I have moved to a primary-grade classroom and... more
              • Forget Grammar - shannonsilver, Mon Oct 26 22:28
                So never mind on the grammar books, right! I know that there is "grammar" in the listening/speaking goals in CCSS but that doesn't mean that we have to explicitly teach grammar. I'm so glad that you... more
                • DOL Practice - Melanie McLeod, Tue Oct 27 05:52
                  Hey Shannon: If I do not have time within my school day to use DOL activities, I am not going to do so. However, if I need a 'time filler' within the school day, I believe it would not hurt the... more
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