TTR: October 30, 2013
Lease this WebApp and get rid of the ads.
Gary Roberts
Pat Jahns
Thu Apr 19, 2012 13:17

When Jahns' book was published in 1957, it caused a bit of a stir. It was not nearly as favorable to Doc as John Myers Myers' DOC HOLLIDAY published in 1955. Both broke new ground. The Myers book followed Lake closely, but added detail for the first time about the post-Tombstone period in addition to filling in some details. Jahns was more critical of Doc--not unsympathetic but less romantic. She got into more of the records, added details about Mattie Holliday, and tapped some resources that others had not found. Both Myers and Jahns had the good fortune of corresponding with Lillian McKey, who was sort of the "keeper of the flame" for the family where Doc was concerned.

Susie McKey contacted Jahns when she began her research on Doc, but by then Pat had disposed of most of her research materials. I would love to have seen Lillian's letters. Miss Lillian had passed away by the time I developed an interest in Doc, but her sister, Alva McKey, was still around, and I met her, although I must say that I was thoroughly intimidated by her and still young enough that I really didn't know what I was doing. She was of the opinion that her sister had been too open about some things to outsiders and talked about how "careful" people who wrote about Doc "had better be" in what they said. Nonetheless, it was a memorable experience. I just wish I had been more knowledgeable and persistent. I got the impression from her that Miss Lillian had shared some things with Jahns that Miss Alva was not happy about. There are even some indications that Miss Lilian tried to soften some of the things she said in her correspondence with Jahns.

Jahns was also the first biographer to actually use notes (Myers followed the more traditional approach of referring to contemporary sources in the text itself). Jahns followed a pattern of quoting extensively from souurces, being one of the first to quote extensively from the NUGGET. I remember that at the time I was both disappointed and encouraged. I learned about Mattie Holliday and mined her endnotes for leads. I never actually corresponded with her. I didn't especially like her portrayal of him as a somewhat pitiable character who managed to survive in the West in spite of his flaws and weaknesses. But even that tempered my approach in the years that followed.

A great deal of new information has come to light in the fifty years plus since her book was published, for for a long time Myers and Jahns were the one-two punches on Doc. They laid out some trails for folks like me and Susie and Karen and Vickie and others to follow. I always try to acknowledge the debt I owe to those who came before whether I agree with them or not. In any case, they influenced me.

Best to you!

Gary

Lease this WebApp and get rid of the ads.
  • Doc Holliday's Dental TrainingTom, Thu Apr 12 10:43
    Was Doc Holliday actually trained in dentistry at the college in Baltimore? Something I once read stated no record was ever found of him attending the institution and that may actually have done so... more
    • Re: Dental trainingGary Roberts, Thu Apr 12 10:56
      He graduated from the Pennsylvania College of Dental Surgery, March 1, 1872.
      • So this is on record...Tom, Thu Apr 12 11:07
        Now that I think of it I believe I saw that somewhere not long ago.
        • John Henry goes dentalGeraldo, Thu Apr 12 13:05
          I used to read that he went to dental school in Baltimore too. I couldn't remember where, so I pulled Pat Jahns' book "The Frontier World of Doc Holliday" off the shelf to see if it might be... more
          • It WAS Philly! sharonc, Fri Apr 13 11:26
            Jerry - Don't pull down Jahns, check the last word on Doc.... Gary Roberts! s
            • Like Doc, I am sometimes misunderstoodGeraldo, Fri Apr 13 13:26
              Hello Sharon, It's great to hear from you. It's also comforting to know that you are there to lead me back onto the right path if I wander out into the desert to chew on some loco-weed. This time,... more
              • Sorry, Jerry.... sharonc, Sat Apr 14 11:17
                Emails and post on boards are sometimes misunderstood because of lack of nuances we hear in speaking to one another.... I don't have Jahns' book, but have heard others tell of the now-known... more
                • Pat Jahns — Gary Roberts, Thu Apr 19 13:17
                • As I have always said...Robin Andrews, Sat Apr 14 14:48
                  ...computers have no eyebrows. lol ra
                • Sharon, no "sorry" necessary...Geraldo, Sat Apr 14 12:20
                  After I made my post, I wondered if what I had written might be misunderstood and perhaps I should have made it clearer. But, it was too late then. Also, I don't mind having my cage rattled every... more
              • Dental School DilemmaVictoria Wilcox, Fri Apr 13 20:52
                It was Doc's cousin, Susan McKey Thomas of Valdosta, who was able to prove his true dental school affiliation. While working on her book "In Search of the Hollidays" (1973) she corresponded with a... more
                • Doc Holliday"s dental professionArmand, Wed Apr 18 03:23
                  Hello Victoria Doc posed for at least a 2nd photo in Philadelphia. I also have some new info about doc and some of his fellow students. I was saving this for a small article but since you have an... more
                  • Doc, DDSVictoria Wilcox, Thu Apr 19 21:12
                    Thanks, Armand! I'd very much like to learn more! I'm hoping you were able to find some descendants for Jameson Fuches, the student who sat beside him in class and who shared a research topic their... more
                    • Southern Son!Victoria Wilcox, Fri Apr 20 20:41
                      For those interested in Doc Holliday (and who isn't?), follow this link to see the just announced cover for Southern Son: The Saga of Doc Holliday, book one Inheritance. Knox Robinson Publishing,... more
                    • Doc Holliday's dental careerArmand, Fri Apr 20 12:27
                      Victoria Please post your email. Thanks, Armand
                      • Email ContactVictoria Wilcox, Fri Apr 20 13:05
                        Oops! Here it is: DocsLadie@aol.com
                • PSVictoria Wilcox, Fri Apr 13 20:53
                  By the way, my presentation at the gathering in Tombstone in October will concern Doc's dental profession -- and the unlikely and dangerous link it gave him to Billy Leonard. I look forward to... more
                  • that dang billy Leonard...bfrey, Sat Apr 14 13:46
                    cause so much trouble with his connections to Holliday...sounds very interesting!
                  • ThanksGeraldo, Sat Apr 14 05:23
                    Victoria, Thank you for the info on John Henry. Your presentation in October sounds like it will be a good one. Jerry
                    • More detailsGary Roberts, Sat Apr 14 07:13
                      Jerry, Vickie is right that Susie Thomas's research broke the log jam. It is not clear why Baltimore was settled on by earlier writers, but both John Myers Myers and Pat Jahns had him attending... more
                      • question for GaryPeter Christoph, Sat Apr 14 18:49
                        Is that where Karen Tanner learned of Doc's schooling, or did she find it on her own through family resources? Peter
                        • AnswerGary Roberts, Sun Apr 15 09:45
                          Peter, I have no way of knowing the answer to that question. The information was known by 1973; Karen's book was published in 1998. In their book, IN SEARCH OF THE HOLLIDAYS (1973), Thomas and... more
                          • Vague pronoun referenceGary Roberts, Sun Apr 15 09:49
                            In my previous post, the "she" in the second sentence of the second paragraph is a reference to Karen Tanner. Sorry about that.
                            • Dr. Borkbfrey, Tue Apr 17 06:09
                              Do you know where is papers on Elder can be seen? Is it in a published book? Also it seems Elder wanted to provide information on Doc and the whole Tombstone ordeal but required cash for doing so. I... more
                              • Kate's accountsGary Roberts, Tue Apr 17 06:45
                                Most of Kate's stories have been published in one form or another. Dr. Bork's version was published in ARIZONA AND THE WEST, Spring 1977. Some of her comments to Anton Mazzanovich may be found in the ... more
                      • Thanks, GaryGeraldo, Sat Apr 14 11:03
                        I thought the graduation photo probably fit into the equation somewhere. It's a fascinating story, but to me all things Doc are fascinating. Jerry
Click here to receive daily updates