B.J.'s Tombstone History Discussion Form

TTR: October 30, 2013

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I "pay attention" or am "attentive to" your posts. It's that there are so many of them--they DO seem hourly to self-propagate, or, rather, more accurately, metastasize like carcinogens--that I often wind up mistakenly, clumsily clicking on them, and then am left so dumbstruck, so mesmerized, really, by their malignant absence of quality, that I find myself unable to click off again. Kinda like watching a train wreck, y'know?

Please, do keep passing my own around. I can use all the passing around I can get. Plus, those who you pass them to cannot help but benefit, I should think, by the examples they provide of correct usage. You know, as opposed to your own.

Perseveration, Bruce. You are familiar with this word? This concept? Look it up, then THINK about it, insofar as you may be capable of doing so.

Once again, it's "I must HAVE missed," not "I must OF missed."

But getting back to Doc, still waiting for your serious-minded, insightful, original response to my original question. You know, a response that arises less from your agenda-driven spin and speculation, than from what we know are the corroborable facts.

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witnesses never called.... — bfrey, Sat Apr 14 17:00

I was leisurely reading a few Tombstone books and observed that Shibell was in town on the day on the gunfight and another gentleman that later became a U.S.senator that was speaking to Frank just... more
- Spicer's opinion about Tom and a gun was perfect — Tom Gaumer, Mon Apr 16 22:55
  
  Nick As Spicer said very clearly and totally correct, the issue was if surrenedering men were gunned down or not. Whether Tom was unarmed or not is not important for the exact reasons stated by... more
- Spot on Nick, "under the rug" (nm) — Peter Love, Sun Apr 15 22:39
- "In town on the day?" — Bob Paul, Sat Apr 14 20:47
  
  Bruce: I have been interested in this question for a while, but currently have no answers. I have talked with Ms. Marks (a lovely lady) about her references to this---not yet resolved---and was... more
- - Marcus Aurelius Smith — bfrey, Sat Apr 14 21:03
    
    One of Arizona's first senators was identified as the tall man talking to Frank just before the gunfight. Martha King witnesses Smith talking to Frank and overhearing Frank say "If you wish to find... more
  - - Smith--a question and an observation — Gary Roberts, Sun Apr 15 13:07
      
      What is the basis for assuming that the man Frank was talking to was Marcus Smith? Smith was involved in the prosecution of the case from the get-go. On November 1, 1881, Ike Clanton paid Smith $375... more
    - - Martha King's "tall man" — bfrey, Sun Apr 15 14:10
        
        p.213 of "And Die in the West" states " Smith has been identified by researchers as the "tall man" to whom Martha King saw Frank talking after he arrived at Bauers to do her grocery shopping". "She... more
      - Re: Martha King's "tall man" — Tom Gaumer, Mon Apr 16 12:11
        
        bfrey Why does "has been identified by researchers" mean anything unless the researchers and their sources are given? You mention Behan's jailer Billy Soule as being nearby and he was there. If he... more
        Tom/speculation — K.t.K., Mon Apr 16 19:36
        
        Tom, are YOU going to "relax" just from hearing a line of b.s. from Behan? Really? Please...tell me it ain't so. Is Morgan going to relax when a guy he despises - at least six times over - tries to... more
        Everybody needs to read Cook's HANDS UP! (nm) — Gary Roberts, Wed Apr 18 09:41
        
        go post, well said Kenny (NM) (nm) — Randy King, Wed Apr 18 08:56
        
        Morgan Earp — Steve Sanders, Tue Apr 17 21:31
        
        K.t.K: I seem to remember some word that you have been working on a book about ME. If true, are you close to publishing. I, for one, am very eager to learn more about ME, especially his time as a... more
        Looking forward to that also! — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 19:43
        
        Kenny had more on Morgan than anyone could imagine!! Along with some documentation that is spectacular! Hope I didn't say too much! I would be the first in line to read Kenny's accounts of Morgan... more
        Sanders/Brooks — K.t.K., Wed Apr 18 12:39
        
        Steve, I’m sure you are referring to William L. “Billy” Brooks, aka “Bully” Brooks, aka “Buffalo Billy” Brooks. There was no incident between he and Morgan Earp in Montana as the former had died in... more
        Ha! — Steve Sanders, Wed Apr 18 14:59
        
        Another myth dispelled! Without recreating your whole rough draft here, would you kindly say the who, what, why, where, when and how involved in that gunplay? It'll tide me over for a little while.... more
        Howitzers @ 10 paces — K.t.K., Wed Apr 18 20:07
        
        There happened to be a special place available for engagements of dispute ranging the whole gamut from cussing matches, rough & tumble brawls, knife fights to pistol duels. It was a piece of land in... more
        Shameless — Steve Sanders, Wed Apr 18 20:18
        
        Shameless tease. Shameless, I tell you!
        I apoligize, Steve seems to be the first in line! (nm) — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 19:44
        
        Both Virgil and Wyatt said they believed Behan — Tom Gaumer, Mon Apr 16 22:44
        
        KtK Who am I to disagree with them? We can only speculate about Morgan's attitude as he is not on record. Your specualtion sounds pretty good to me. Doc has his shot gun up and ready. He knows to not ... more
        Really, Tom. Wyatt said?? — K.t.K., Wed Apr 18 12:49
        
        As I recall Wyatt was just reading.... reading the words compliled by the high-priced lawyer. This is what we do when paying out the nose to high-priced attorney. We submit to their professional... more
        Consider all the testimony and then you can surrender. — Tom Gaumer, Wed Apr 18 14:17
        
        KtK On page 152 of Turner Johnny Behan confirms what Wyatt and Virgil said to him at the time. When all three, Behan, Virgil and Wyatt, agree at the time that something was said, most observers would ... more
        Wyatt's light bulb went on... — bfrey, Tue Apr 17 05:44
        
        I always believed that Wyatt's light bulb or realization that Behan had said those words came just after Behan tried to arrest him. Wyatt was supported by a citizen who said those men did... more
        Right on, BFrey. — K.t.K., Wed Apr 18 12:57
        
        After the fact it fits into Fitch's defense "theory." Those Earp boys blew right past Behan with no hesitation to the purpose. They knew Johnny for a liar ever since November 1880. k
        BOTH Wyatt and Virgil said that. You get a choice — Tom Gaumer, Tue Apr 17 08:59
        
        bfrey Do you think Behan is the more trustworthy man or Virgil and Wyatt. That call might say a lot? The Earps walked by Behan but there was dialog between them as reported by all three. They were... more
        Going on life records — Peter Love, Tue Apr 17 23:22
        
        Tom Behan was more trustworthy than Wyatt or Virgil. And he was not on trial here. And I would like a legal opinion on to what extent the lack of action by the Grand Jury, and those other courts... more
        Marshal Williams — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 06:39
        
        at one point was on a panel to decide on prosecution, I believe in Contention? What does that tell you about the make-up of a grand jury?
        Bruce — paulj, Wed Apr 18 11:27
        
        Williams was on the grand jury (December term, 1881) that would not indict the Earps. That grand jury had several people we can identify as Earp supporters, for instance (besides Williams): Sylvester ... more
        Are you sure about Behan's life record? — Tom Gaumer, Wed Apr 18 00:21
        
        Peter Behan's quality as a witness was on trial as was the quality of every other witness. I don't think Behan's life record was as good as you seem to think. Here is an obvious example. When the... more
        not my words..... — bfrey, Mon Apr 16 15:44
        
        I agree, sources should of been given, but Marks failed to identify the sources? I think there were a few other testimonies that would of been useful if they testified. Obviously this case was about... more
        Questions...? — Jeff Morey, Tue Apr 17 09:11
        
        bfrey, Given the fact that Ike Clanton was the one who leveled the charge of murder against the Earps and Doc Holliday, was Litttleton Price empowered to lower that charge, on his own, to manslaugher ... more
        Charging decisions...... — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 06:51
        
        The office of the Prosecutor determines what charges to level and what they can prove. Ike and Wm McLaury demanded and lobbied for the charges they wanted. That is not suppose to be the way it works. ... more
        Territorial law — Gary Roberts, Wed Apr 18 07:57
        
        Without a primer in territorial law, it is difficult to offer strong opinions on how things were supposed to work. We can't assume that the laws of 1881 Arizona operated the same way that they do in... more
        didn't mean to offer a strong opinion — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 19:39
        
        Obviously there are differences, but obviously Ike did not know what the differences were in a legal complaint. Ike charged everyone with the highest count irregardless of the evidence. Is it any... more
        It's either — olds, Thu Apr 19 13:22
        
        "regardless" or "irrespective." "Irregardless" is not a word. Or, rather, it is a word, but it is the sort of incorrect word that will get you red-flagged every time by the grammer police. File it... more
        cinching Doc — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 14:56
        
        Doc could of been charged with manslaughter or another form of murder by the witness statements the cowboys presented. I didn't say the statements were true but they could of convinced a jury. If Doc ... more
        That answer doesn't answer. — olds, Thu Apr 19 17:14
        
        Since Doc was not cinchable, and, ergo, was not cinched, how could Doc have been cinched?
        ergo, — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 19:47
        
        Still waiting for an original thought? Do you have one?
        you rarely disappoint.... — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 14:45
        
        Thanks I will file it. You rarely disappoint Mr.Olds. If you hadn't jumped in with your comments I would of been disappointed. It is so predictable. As I mentioned before you amuse me, so keep... more
        That would be the — olds, Thu Apr 19 17:11
        
        spelling police, not the grammer police. I would "have" been disappointed. Not I would "of" been disappointed. Insert comma after "disappoint" Insert comma after "comments" Insert comma after... more
        You did get that right — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 20:21
        
        Offering any good points, means participating in the forum with ideas and insight. You seem to just lurk around and pounce on others with your delightful criticism. If that makes you happy, please... more
        Not so. — olds, Fri Apr 20 08:52
        
        I don't "pounce" on others. I reserve my "pouncing" for you specifically owing to you specifically being the prime offender in these matters. If you posted less, it would be less of an issue, and I... more
        I had no idea..... — bfrey, Fri Apr 20 10:34
        
        that you were so attentive to my posts. That you give so much attention to them is very flattering.??????? Your silence of course would mean you don't care. Not Canadian no, not a writer, english... more
        It's not that — olds, Fri Apr 20 12:03
        Perseveration.. — bfrey, Fri Apr 20 19:27
        
        Yes I do understand the definition and insult. I would ask if you than understand respect, honor, and dignity? I would hope a intelligent man as yourself and an author would rise above these petty... more
        with all do respect — bfrey, Fri Apr 20 13:42
        
        You honor yourself too much by assuming you have an original question or response. This is all I have ever seen from you. I had no idea you were so sensitive. I will try and limit my posts for your... more
        OK, OK, if you insist. — olds, Fri Apr 20 09:04
        
        It's what YOU'RE good at. Mea culpa.
        You should — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 19:46
        
        teach a community college I think they would need a person with your talent. Got an original thought or idea let me know, otherwise your wasting my time. You could at least spell right if you or... more
        if you are — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 20:02
        
        "are' I will save you some red ink..........
        first being duly sworn, complains — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 08:44
        
        I believe Ike swore out the complaint and the warrant was issued on his sworn complaint/affadavit. Today a citizen makes a complaint and an officer/prosecutor will obtain a warrant signed by a judge. ... more
        Indignant Outrage. — Jeff Morey, Wed Apr 18 07:05
        
        bfrey, Don't you think that because of the politicalization of this case that had Price charged the Earps and Holliday with a lesser charge than murder that the NUGGET would have voiced indignant... more
        possibly... — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 07:16
        
        I have to imagine that the Nugget would understand Price's decision if it was explained? The Nugget always voiced indignant outrage. Bottom line who was in charge of this decision, Ike, Will, and the ... more
        words — Gary Roberts, Tue Apr 17 06:15
        
        First, Marks did identify her source--see p. 443 (213. "tall man": CI, p. 15.). CI in her note system stands for Coroner's Inquest. We don't know where the other officers were. Bronk may have been at ... more
        factual core — bfrey, Tue Apr 17 08:06
        
        Yes, speculation isn't useful I agree. What is factual is that no other law enforcement officers were enlisted to enforce a local ordinance. There were other sworn officers that easily could of been... more
        Re: factual core — harveycmd, Tue Apr 17 09:02
        
        Judge away, but keep in mind that your judgments are likely to say more about you than they are about Virgil’s decisions that day. I think that is Gary’s point. The rather uncomplicated truth is that ... more
        The fact is.... — Jeff Morey, Tue Apr 17 08:55
        
        bfrey, The fact is that the men who confronted the cow-boys in the vacant lot were the very same men that Ike Clanton had been threatening all morning long. If Virgil Earp had enlisted other deputies ... more
        Re: The fact is.... — harveycmd, Tue Apr 17 09:10
        
        That's another good point. The men who confronted the cowboys were the same men who had been repeatedly threatened. Therefore, by the standards of honor operative at the place and time, having the... more
        Ike called the tune, but the others weren't listening.. — bfrey, Tue Apr 17 10:55
        
        So as to Ike threatening and calling the tune we have to question if the others were actively involved and aware of the level of Ike's threats? Ike at one point was a one man band. Ike was also... more
        Well... — Jeff Morey, Tue Apr 17 12:10
        
        bfrey, Well, Frank McLaury may have had his own private tune playing in his head. While it was Ike's dim-witted public one-man-riot that put Tombstone on edge, it was Frank McLaury's intransigent... more
        Swaggered — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 06:19
        
        swaggered: past participle, past tense of swag·ger Verb: Walk or behave in a very confident and typically arrogant or aggressive way. That is basically the way that many Tombstone citizens believed... more
        If....? — Jeff Morey, Wed Apr 18 06:58
        
        bfrey, If the Earps believed they were in the right as to the street fight, how should they have acted? My Best, Jeff Morey
        Acted — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 08:54
        
        In my opinion the Earps should of been a little more contrite about taking 3 lives. They should of took the posture of acting remorseful, regretting their actions and saying so. They still had the... more
        I believe that both — olds, Tue Apr 17 18:37
        
        swagger and sashay suggest an element of strutting, arrogantly in the former case, with a certain contrived, "look-at-me" nonchalance in the latter. My own hunch, based on nothing, is that the Earps... more
        Re: Ike called the tune, but the others weren't listening.. — harveycmd, Tue Apr 17 11:23
        
        They listened enough to get themselves in trouble. If you rub your hands in catfish charlie they are going to stink for a while no matter how much you try to wash them afterward. Others can even come ... more
        Can you not pursue winning by telling the truth? — Tom Gaumer, Mon Apr 16 22:33
        
        bfrey I don't understand your question mark after "...Marks failed to identify sources?" Are you saying she did identify them because I don't see where? Once into a trial who would not try and win?... more
        You are right. I assume the following, perhaps — Tom Gaumer, Tue Apr 17 10:13
        
        in error. Sills reported overhearing the cowboys making threats. He indicated they were doing this on the open street. Whether you find him believable is another matter but he is a source that... more
        No.....you can get sentenced quickly — bfrey, Tue Apr 17 06:05
        
        Sorry about the question mark after the quote. I guess I was asking why she wouldn't list a source regarding that comment. You explain it perfectly, who would not try and win. Everyone tries to win... more
        I guess we both missed Mark's invisible footnotes. Sorry. — Tom Gaumer, Tue Apr 17 10:58
        
        bfrey In most books including the best on these subjects, like "Doc Holliday The Life and Legend" and "Wyatt Earp The Life Behand the Legend" the footnotes are so clear and easy to follow. A few... more
        Not about the discussion — Peter Love, Sun Apr 15 22:34
        
        Bruce But about Smith. Probably this is old hat, I don't know. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/printArticlePdf/72323502/3?print=n Smith obviously saw something, because he was called for the inquest. ... more
        Arizona and the West Steve Fazio — bfrey, Mon Apr 16 05:52
        
        Anyone read this? Apparently it has info on Senator Smith and I am wondering if the good Senator ever related anything about Tombstone history in his later years?
        Fazio — Gary Roberts, Mon Apr 16 06:37
        
        Fazio's article is an interesting portrait of Marcus A. Smith, but it doesn't provide much detail about the Earp- Clanton troubles. It may be of interest that he and Lyttleton Price, the district... more
        very interesting, hadn't seen it... (nm) — bfrey, Mon Apr 16 05:26
        
        I know . . . — Gary Roberts, Sun Apr 15 16:19
        
        that Marks and others identifies Mrs. King's "tall man" as Marcus Smith. My question is what is the basis for the conclusion. In the Hayhurst manuscript, Hayhurst says flatly that the "tall man" was... more
        source... — bfrey, Sun Apr 15 17:09
        
        Hayhurst may be the only source that says it outright? In Turner's O.k Corral inquest in his editors notes, he states that it was Smith, Behan, and Mclaury. Turner thinks that the statement by... more
        I think you're missing the point — Gary Roberts, Mon Apr 16 06:18
        
        I did not say that Hayhurst was the only person to say it. I said that Hayhurst appears to have been the first to say it--that I know of at least. You cite Turner, but you need to remember that his... more
        agree... — bfrey, Mon Apr 16 10:33
        
        I was not supporting the conversation that was overheard, I was merely stating what Turner had said and his guess what the two subjects were talking about.... I also think that being a lawyer... more
        I think we are missing the real puzzle about the alleged ... — Jeff Morey, Tue Apr 17 13:46
        
        bfrey, Right now, we simply don't know who Frank McLaury was speaking to in the exchange overheard by Martha King. However, I think we have been missing what is really puzzling about the words Mrs.... more
        just when I open a door... — bfrey, Tue Apr 17 14:41
        
        another one opens, that's what makes this so interesting at least to a novice like myself. Do we know what Smith's position was a the time, if it was indeed Smith? Was he a lawyer or a prosecutor? If ... more
        If.... — Jeff Morey, Tue Apr 17 14:52
        
        bfrey, 1.) Since we don't know who Frank McLaury was talking to, it is hard to see why you continue to be so focused on Smith. 2.) Again, if the cow-boys were headed for the West End Corral, why... more
        talking to Frank, and why in the corral — bfrey, Tue Apr 17 17:10
        
        Obviously there is no correct answer to why they picked there location to gather and decide their course of action. They were out of view of the Earp's and maybe looking to confront Holliday? At one... more
        What evidence? — Jeff Morey, Tue Apr 17 23:34
        
        bfrey, 1.) What evidence do you have that Frank McLaury was talking to Marcus Smith? 2). You won't like this, but as a former teacher, can you please try to present proper spelling and grammar in... more
        evidence — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 06:10
        
        We have a witness seeing him talking to a tall man and listening to the exchange that was noted. I gave you the details of the evidence that it could be Smith. I will make a better attempt, but when... more
        Unidentified — Jeff Morey, Wed Apr 18 06:49
        
        bfrey, I don't know who the "tall man" who Frank McLaury talked to was. As of now, I simply consider the "tall man" to be unidentified. My Best, Jeff Morey
        evidence — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 07:01
        
        There is some evidence pointing to the tall man as Smith. It certainly is not conclusive, but there is some evidence. What is the bearing on this whole scenario if it was or was not Smith? Smith was... more
        Plain facts — Gary Roberts, Wed Apr 18 09:34
        
        The plain fact is that we would not be having this discussion at all if Pat Hayhurst had not identified "the tall man" as Marcus A. Smith in a note. The plain fact is that we have no idea whatsoever... more
        Not the only tall man in Tombstone??? — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 19:33
        
        No Mr Smith was not the tallest man in Tombstone, he was a very large man by the standards in those days. He was the tallest man on Bauer's porch before the gunfight. Unless Bob Paul was lurking... more
        ??? — Jeff Morey, Wed Apr 18 20:41
        
        bfrey, You write: "He (Marcus Smith) was the tallest man on Bauer's porch before the fight." How did you determine that Marcus Smith was on Bauer's porch before the gunfight? My Best, Jeff Morey
        "Partially Identified"? — Jeff Morey, Wed Apr 18 07:09
        
        bfrey, "Partially identified"? I don't have any idea what that means. My Best, Jeff Morey
        Re: "Partially Identified"? — harveycmd, Wed Apr 18 09:10
        
        I think that he going to assume that it means what he wants it to so that he can continue. This is similar to the "swaggering" argument. The Earps were known to have a rather stoic and laconic... more
        Chris — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 15:07
        
        Were you referring to Endicott Peabody’s Really Big Adventure” (2003) by S.J. Reidhead. Reference your comments? If so I apologize for my inappropriate comments.
        really????????????? — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 18:36
        
        Chris, You have been commenting on this board with articulate prowess. Unless you have walked the walk I suggest the verbiage that you demonstrate should be restrained. Franks refusal to surrender... more
        Frank refused to surrender his arms... — Jeff Morey, Wed Apr 18 19:52
        
        bfrey, You write: "Franks refusal to surrender his arms appears to have been done in front of a weak sheriff, in front a large crowd assembled....." What "large crowd" are you talking about? My Best, ... more
        based on Martha King's testimony — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 06:16
        
        King relates there was a group of men gathered on the sidewalk area of Bauer's. I suppose the defintion of "large crowd' is open to interpretation? Nevertheless, there was an audience that was... more
        Question...? — Jeff Morey, Thu Apr 19 23:12
        
        bfrey, How did you determine that the men Mrs. King saw as she entered the market were still there when Behan and Frank McLaury passed? My Best, Jeff Morey
        partially identified — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 09:00
        
        When a witness here tries to make an identification of a suspect and thinks its him, looks like him, could be him, but isn't positively sure we call it a partial identification. The witness has seen... more
        What witness? — Gary Roberts, Wed Apr 18 09:40
        
        The question is what witness (a person who was there at the time) said that the tall man looked like Smith, could have been Smith, but wasn't sure it was Smith? What we have is a researcher who was... more
        Martha King — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 14:01
        
        Stated she saw the tall man talking to Frank or the man leading the horse. No one except Hayhurst made that connection and why he did it is apparently lost? Smith was a very big sized man and would... more
        But that's not what you said — Gary Roberts, Thu Apr 19 05:59
        
        You said that a witness identified Smith. What we have is an interesting possibility--nothing more until somebody comes up with something substantial.
        Re: Martha King — Jeff Morey, Wed Apr 18 15:25
        
        bfrey, You write: "If this is or isn't Smith, is it critical to anything? So why would someone (Hayhurst) say that it is Smith. Hayhurst was not trying to make a point or influence anything, he was... more
        are we disregarding..."plain facts" — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 06:30
        
        That Smith was a very large man. That Martha King identified a "tall man" speaking to Frank. That Smith had been called to the hearing and dismissed for unknown reasons. That Smith was obviously... more
        No — Gary Roberts, Thu Apr 19 07:41
        
        We're not ignoring plain facts. We're asking that the facts be connected in some reasonable manner. This is not circumstantial evidence. It is an idea planted by Hayhurst and watered by our desire... more
        Is this considered a fact or undetermined? — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 19:59
        
        admittedly the Earl Chafin version of Adelias memoirs on page 12: "About Lake's book: The boys I know were bitter at Mark Smith because he saw the fight {Shootout at he O.K. Corral] and knew what... more
        Clarifications — Gary Roberts, Fri Apr 20 05:30
        
        First, there are still some questions about the authenticity of Adelia's memoir. I don't have Chafin's version, but he did occasionally modify the documents he published. Second, and far more... more
        so many lawyers out and about.. — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 09:06
        
        Dillon and Kinneally were noted being close to the post office just before the fight. M.A. Smith was in a legal practice with James Robinson. Robinson represented Ike after the fight. The "tall man... more
        Hayhurst foundation — bfrey, Wed Apr 18 18:14
        
        No Hayhurst is not providing any conclusion and he didn't mean to do that. He merely made the notation because it didn't mean anything. However, he got the information he obtained, he did not... more
        Help me with something here — Gary Roberts, Thu Apr 19 07:32
        
        Sheriff Behan testified that after leaving Virgil Earp at Hafford's, "I then went down Fourth street to the corner of Fremont, and I met there Frank McLowry holding a horse and talking to somebody."... more
        Mr. Roberts should this be reposted to the top? — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 12:46
        
        I would like to see others input on this?
        Correction — Gary Roberts, Thu Apr 19 10:15
        
        From the EPITAPH, cross examination, third "Q": "Q. Where were you when you heard the words to which you have just testified? A. In the first folding door. "Q. Do you know to whom these words were... more
        intriguing....will have to print this out . (nm) — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 09:20
        
        Another witness seeing BOTH horses. — K.t.K., Thu Apr 19 07:45
        
        Sorry, had to get that out - not prepared to comment on the rest. k
        Your logic eludes me. — Jeff Morey, Wed Apr 18 20:10
        
        bfrey, Your logic totally eludes me. 1.). You write: "Hayhurst's word is not evidence...". Then why do you continue to treat it as evidence? 2.). How do we factor in the description by Mrs. King? All ... more
        totally.... — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 09:54
        
        Smith would of testified about the events leading up to the gunfight. If you are vaguely familiar with witness testimony and how they are called you would most likely understand the concept.... more
        Logic — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 06:43
        
        I treat it as evidence because of a few supporting factors associated with Hayhurst putting his name in the documents. Did Hayhurst pull that out of thin air? Is that the contention? We factor in... more
        All I can say is.... — Jeff Morey, Thu Apr 19 07:22
        
        bfrey, Your grasp of logic is as impressive as your command of grammar. My Best, Jeff Morey
        haven't claimed either.... — bfrey, Thu Apr 19 09:24
        
        You never fail to disappoint either by going on the personal attack. Whether it be Nick or whoever you feel should suffer from your insults. I have always expected more of you, but I consistently get ... more
        You disappoint me too. (nm) — Jeff Morey, Thu Apr 19 23:24
        
        TG answers the question...partially. — Bob Cash, Sun Apr 15 17:29
        
        Tom Gaumer Adelia Earp Edwards on Mark Smith, Tue Jun 21, 2011 16:25 Jeff admittedly the Earl Chafin version of Adelias memoirs on page 12: "About Lake's book: The boys I know were bitter at Mark... more
        unidentified miner and son ever identified? — bfrey, Sun Apr 15 18:34
        
        Was the minor and son who allegedly witnessed the gunfight ever identified or are these just images for old timer accounts? The miner after seeing the fight wanted to go for his shotgun as he stated... more
        If you are talking about the Lewis, remember he is a liar. — Tom Gaumer, Mon Apr 16 10:53
        
        bfrey He said he and his father witnessed the fight from their office window across from Fly's on Fremont. Their office was on Toughnut Street and Mr. Lewis was lying. If Lewis comments are taken... more
        Re: unidentified miner and son ever identified? — Peter Love, Mon Apr 16 00:53
        
        Hi Bruce This was the mining engineer you and Tom had been talking about before. Regards Pete
- Re: witnesses never called.... — Bob Cash, Sat Apr 14 17:49
  
  I, too, have always been interested in Shibell's role (or lack of one) in the hearing. One of the defense attorneys asked Behan if he had not, in fact, characterized the difficulty to Shibell as a... more
- - Bob, I don't believe — Butch Badon, Sat Apr 14 18:17
    
    the question put to Behan regarding what he might, or might not, have said to Shibell. The defense attorney was simply employing a cheap-lawyer trick, i.e. asking a question to which he knew the... more
  - - A cheap lawyer? Isn't that an oxymoron? (nm) — Paul Cool, Sun Apr 15 05:54

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