K.t.K.
Re: 1880 festival
Mon Apr 23, 2012 08:06
I'd like to see the source for "five or six weeks." However, we're not in consideration of 1880. The Johnson article of March 1884 makes no mistake in that regard. Let's look again:
"Two years from the last Fiesta there was a desperate gang at Levin's park. They proposed to control the entertainment. Among this bad element were the Earps, Doc Holliday and their companions...."
Differentiation is made between the "desperate gang" and the Earps. The latter are stated to be "among this element" but secondary to that other entity. The "desperate gang" can be no other than the 1881 "top & bottom" boys just bounced out of Benson who ionvaded the Feast of 1881 and no other.
Kenny
"Two years from the last Fiesta there was a desperate gang at Levin's park. They proposed to control the entertainment. Among this bad element were the Earps, Doc Holliday and their companions...."
Differentiation is made between the "desperate gang" and the Earps. The latter are stated to be "among this element" but secondary to that other entity. The "desperate gang" can be no other than the 1881 "top & bottom" boys just bounced out of Benson who ionvaded the Feast of 1881 and no other.
Kenny
- Enlightenment please - Gary, probably — Peter Love, Sun Apr 22 03:19Anyone I came across this one. It must have had plenty of attention. I have posted in PDF form. The item of interest is "Another Badge"... more
- Peter, bravo on another fascinating find. — K.t.K., Sun Apr 22 11:19However, a few things don’t stack up against the law of chronology. Fiesta de San Agustin - called the “Feast” by the Anglos, was begun every 28th of August to celebrate St. Augustine who is the... more
- Interesting facts — Peter Love, Sun Apr 22 18:14Hi Kenny When I read this I wondered whether it was one of those old-time tongue in cheek type reports. But if so, it goes over my head, and I think the average Tucson reader would also see it as a... more
- Don't believe everything you read in a newspaper. — Butch Badon, Mon Apr 23 16:08And that's advice coming from one who spent 25 of his working years as a reporter and editor. To elaborate: The newspaper may - or may not - have quoted the sheriff accurately. Even so, just because... more
- Peter, let me take you in deeper. — K.t.K., Sun Apr 22 21:25At the feast of 1881 the games of chance are nearly all conducted within the inner court of the main building. Many of the professional gamblers running the numerous gambling booths and venues came... more
- Thanks — Peter Love, Mon Apr 23 00:07Kenny Yes, I believe you. But then I wonder what would be a possible explanation for Johnson making such a public statement, only 2 years later? And in front of many local men who were probably... more
- Kenny has it nailed — Gary Roberts, Mon Apr 23 06:10Peter, Kenny has laid out the situation well. Believe me, if the Earps had created any problems it would have made the papers. The CITIZEN warned on August 28, 1881, opening day of the festival that... more
- Thanks — Peter Love, Mon Apr 23 06:44Gary But....why? That is what bugs me. If we are certain the statement is wrong, what is the reason it was said, and who was the source? A blatant transparent lie, or a mistaken third-hand account?... more
- The worm had turned . . . — Gary Roberts, Mon Apr 23 08:07by 1884. With the Earps gone, a pattern developed of blaming them for all kinds of things that were never even suggested while they were there. Editorial interests have a way of changing over time. I ... more
- Damn newspapers — Peter Love, Tue Apr 24 00:16Hi Gary (and Butch) I don't reckon you can trust ANYTHING you can read in them now. Yes Gary, I think something can still be learned from this article. I think the historical newspaper coverage that... more
- Tucson Directory, 1881 — Bob Paul, Tue Apr 24 08:28Peter: The Tucson city directory cited in your message can be found in the 1988 Copper State Bulletin, produced by the Arizona State Genealogical Society (ASGS). The ASGS has morphed into the Pima... more
- Thanks Bob — Peter Love, Sat Apr 28 05:44I was surprised to see it, I guess Tombstone did just not get big enough, or everyone was too busy seeking power or fortune. Regards Peter
- Well it's also possible — Butch Badon, Mon Apr 23 16:13the story is quite true. But I have qualified my thoughts in a post above. While I think it is folly to depend on this one article for the accuracy of the story, I also think it's just as silly to... more
- Possibilities — Gary Roberts, Tue Apr 24 05:19Butch, I don't think this story has been dismissed out of hand. The detailed reporting that Kenny provided and the information I added demonstrates that the circumstances of the San Augustin Festival ... more
- Re: Possibilities — Peter Love, Sat Apr 28 06:00Hi Gary I wonder what was considered the "Top and Bottom" gang, could have been conflated with the "Earp gang", a later thing, in the public mind. I guess all these roving and colorful gamblers were... more
- While waiting remember no other source agrees with it — Tom Gaumer, Mon Apr 23 17:33As Gary made clear, if it were true the Earp's newspaper enemies at the time would have made the most of it as opposed to what they actually did, which was say nothing at all Never trust the media... more
- man at large... — bfrey, Mon Apr 23 04:26If you consider the Earp's had their hands in gambling operations, this would of been a lovely target. It seems all the Earp's are tied up with law enforcement efforts that side tracked them. Why... more
- He didn't,exactly — Peter Love, Mon Apr 23 05:26Hi Bruce See my correction. They weren't real big on quotation marks back then. When I read it for the third time, I realized Johnson was talking about Johnson. So it is not the direct quote I... more
- Pete, see what you think... — bfrey, Mon Apr 23 05:44http://www.historynet.com/the-gamblers-war-in-tombstone.htm Here is a good article by Robert Jay giving some history of the gambling wars. It seems Doc and the Earp's may have been in Tucson at the... more
- Johnson pegs it as 1881 — K.t.K., Mon Apr 23 06:42The 'top & bottom" gang were essentially in Colorado in 1880, getting run out of Leadville and moving on. Their leader had gone to Dodge City while the bulk of the gang went to Buena Vista and lasted ... more
- 1880 festival — bfrey, Mon Apr 23 07:12The festival is 1880 opened on August 27th 1880. The paper sources describe this as basically a gamblers event that lasted 5 to 6 weeks. Tyler is in Tucson and registered at the Palace hotel in time... more
- Re: 1880 festival — K.t.K., Mon Apr 23 08:06
- I'm convinced — bfrey, Mon Apr 23 10:38The newspaper article I read was an editorial on the fiesta and critical of what it turned into. They characterized it as a large gambling festival that ran for 5 weeks. I will have to go back and... more
- Convincing the convinced — K.t.K., Tue Apr 24 11:40Records of 1880 make it easy to elimate the Earps from the Feast that year. Morgan Earp got a shaky start as Wells Fargo messenger from August 1st. His special relationship with the company allowed... more
- double convinced... — bfrey, Tue Apr 24 15:26Reading about the festival and the grounds in Levin Park was interesting. I had no idea the facility was that big and had that much variety. Music, shooting galleries, bowling, gambling etc. Alex... more
- Re: double convinced... — K.t.K., Tue Apr 24 15:59And besides all that fandago there was horse racing at the Silver Lake track not far away where they specialized in the 500 yard dash. Masquerade Balls came off all during the year at the Park. Alex... more
- Correction: Not Colton ... — K.t.K., Tue Apr 24 11:54Rather Temescal. Nick moved from there to Colton in November. Adelia and Will Edwards were at San Bernardino. Kenny
- Correction — Peter Love, Mon Apr 23 00:18Kenny In re-reading this, it seems that it was not Johnson who made this statement, probably just the writer. It is still a curiosity though, I wonder was there any follow-up to this article Regards... more
- You made me do it, Peter. — K.t.K., Mon Apr 23 07:49I opened it up and pulled an except from the Edward Byrnes biography - just a tidbit un-edited: “In the absence of leader Byrnes, taking opportunistic advantage of the “Feast” meant the gang was... more
- Fantastic, thanks mate (nm) — Peter Love, Mon Apr 23 08:45
- Earps in Tombstone — Bob Paul, Sun Apr 22 12:52Kenny: Re "we have the Earps in tombstone", isn't this about the time when Virgil and James were involved in the fracas with McMaster and the suggested failed communication/direction from Tucson... more
- Where is Doc in October? — bfrey, Sun Apr 22 18:57On September 29 the Tucson star reported, "Over two hundred people have left Tucson to attend the feast at Magdalena (in Mexico) on the 4th proximo, it being the regular annual feast of San... more
- Levins Park had it going on! — bfrey, Sun Apr 22 18:57Levin's Park is also worthy of some description, having been for many years a very popular resort in Tucson. Here the San Augustine fiestas were held, celebration of both American and Mexican... more
- Exactly — K.t.K., Sun Apr 22 13:02Late on September 9 Virgil quick-deputizes James, for nuetralizing Ringo on horseback who is trying to assist McMaster, while Virgil hunts Mr. Mc. k
- Since the Earps were in Tombstone and — Tom Gaumer, Sun Apr 22 08:31Peter Morgan was only in Tucson briefly to pick up Doc, perhaps the Earps talked about were the Chubb Earp family. You know those wild and crazy guys, Ben, Bob, Beasley, Bodine and Bippy? Keep... more
- partial copy of the article....and a comment — bfrey, Sun Apr 22 07:55Two years from the last Fiesta there was a desperate gang at Levin's park. They proposed to control the entertainment. Among this bad element were the Earps, Holliday and their companions. Mr. Gates... more
