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Tue Aug 15, 2017 17:43

Hollywood has programmed us (me, for years ) to see these guys belly up to the bar and slug down rot-gut whiskey. When Ike was at the Oriental with Wyatt, he said "...while the bartender was mixing our drinks..." I am not trying to give the impression I believe Ike never got drunk. I'm sure they all enjoyed imbibing pretty heavily when time and opportunity permitted, but I am trying to keep the historical record in perspective based on what we do know; not what we dress up! My cowboy husband has been known to go on three week benders after the fall round-up and come home coughing up blood. He lived to 77 until a horse put him through a corral fence and caused a punctured lung from a broken rib. Naturally, he did not see the need to see a doctor! I know all about drunken cowboys.

Many of Tombstone's saloons were very posh and imported bartenders from back east; they called them 'mixologists.' There is a reason they were titled so. Ike and Wyatt were drinking mixed drinks which suggest that they were drinking in a relaxed manner. These drinks were more expensive and would not be chugged down one after the other.

No one wants to acknowledge that everyone at the all-night poker fest was drinking, and probably mixed drinks, not iced tea. They all would have been somewhat hung over the next day but that is never mentioned. Only Ike has to be affected by too much drink.

When Doc accosted Ike in the Alhambra, Ike was there for a lunch before turning in. Because he was in that saloon does not prove he was in there drinking. For a 'lunch,' as he called it, I am assuming a beer, a sandwich, and the newspaper. I am assuming, of course, but there is no record of him being drunk that day or that evening.

Ike was far from a stupid man and he was a tough frontiersman and plenty experienced. To say he was reckless at times is not a black mark against him; my husband was pretty reckless at times too. Ike's treatment by Doc and the Earps that night had to make him alert and he took their threats seriously. Common sense says he did not go get drunk out of fear. His adrenalin was going, I would think, and that's why he stayed up all night; another logical assumption without altering the historical record, I hope. He felt threatened and remained on the watch and prepared to deal with whatever was coming. He did not seek out Tom for help or anyone else. This is not the attitude of a coward. He saw it as his problem, and his alone, to arbitrate as any frontiersman would. He armed himself and went looking for the threat to deal with it. he went into several saloons and talked to people he knew because he was agitated, naturally. But not one person he talked to or any bartender said he was drunk, loud, nasty, or belligerent. As I said before, the town had nearly a hundred bars, most of the men in town,if not home with a wife, likely spent all their waking hours in the only social centers there were. They were not all falling down drunks.

When you ask how Ike could make the rounds of the bars all morning are you sure he was drinking? He may not have drank at all of them, only one or two. He did not drink at Hafford's according to the report. He did have a drink at another with a guy he knew. Was it a beer, rot-gut whiskey, or a mixed drink and did he actually finish any of them?

Remember, not one witness said he was drunk or quarrelsome, not even the Earps. Does it not seem odd that Wyatt would mention Doc's inebriated condition, but not mention Ike's. Would that not be to his advantage in court, showing they were provoked by an out-of-control drunk?

You said he became more boisterous and threatening. Who described him as boisterous? Was Ike threatening or actually responding to threats from the Earps and Holliday? What would you have done under the same circumstances in 1881?

There are not other statements mentioning his drinking, except the Maxey fiasco. Pretty common for free wheeling cowboys at the time. Not until he is up in Apache or Graham counties years later. That has nothing to do with the Tombstone story. What, really, was his 'behavior?' Not running and hiding from a threat when Morgan told him to be armed the next time he saw him on the street? What is he supposed to do? He has to deal with, not some other time. You are a twenty-first century man and you do not grasp the way of life out there.

I cannot understand Marshal Trimble making those positive statements without offering reasonable support for them. That is all too common.

Recall too, that in the Hearing, witnesses were questioned about their sobriety, but the Defense did not question Ike about his. Why not? I would think they would have gone after him on that if they could have.

Thank you for listening to my rant!

  • drinking...bfrey, Tue Aug 15 12:13
    Your right Joyce I guess we have no confirmed statements as to his being under the influence. Ike was in the Alhambra saloon around midnight when the confrontation took place, he than attended an all ... more
    • Bruce/drinking... — Joyce, Tue Aug 15 17:43
      • Anonymous/cowardly?Joyce, Wed Aug 16 05:45
        I hope you are going to describe for us exactly how you would handle the situation when gunfire started and you had no weapon. What is your next move, please. I assume you have a plan to save... more
        • anonymous...Joyce, Thu Aug 17 16:22
          I was a little confused about your section on ambushes. Are you saying Ike Clanton was the person involved in each of these? I think there are not clear facts on any of those. It was never determined ... more
          • Re: anonymous...Bob Cash, Sun Aug 20 08:39
            Joyce, you wrote : "It was never determined who shot Morgan through the back window of Campbell & Hatch's saloon. Are you absolutely sure it could not have been vigilantes? The Earps were not all... more
            • Bob/Vigilantes?...Joyce, Sun Aug 20 13:22
              Bob, Apparently the Coroner's jury did not come to anything but suspicion as the case went no further. Why were these men not arrested immediately and jailed? Their involvement was suspected but if... more
              • Anonymous./interesting...Joyce, Mon Aug 21 09:43
                I understand that Marietta Spence might not be able to testify against her husband, but what about the others? She included them in her original statement, did she not? The other two in jail on other ... more
                • IkeFred Dodge, Thu Aug 24 16:00
                  I've said it before and will state it again. Ike was a loud mouth and when his father died he took over the ranch and its operations. He was a two-bit rustler who was in over his head as any type of... more
          • JoyceEddie Lanham, Fri Aug 18 04:28
            Is your email posted on line? I have something to send you.
            • Eddie/contact...Joyce, Fri Aug 18 07:22
              Eddie, You can reach me at Thank you
              • Joyce MesaageEddie Lanham, Sun Aug 20 15:57
                Sent you an email, just wanted to make sure you received.
                • Eddie/I am sorry....Joyce, Mon Aug 21 09:38
                  I didn't receive your e-mail. I posted another address so see if that works better. Joyce
                  • Are you sure Tombstone has internet?Eddie Lanham, Tue Aug 22 03:28
                    I sent you 2 emails, one the the first address you provided and again the the second email address. Maybe the SPAM monster got it?
                    • e-mail pproblem...Joyce, Tue Aug 22 13:38
                      Tombstone is indeed the armpit of the world when it comes to internet, but usually receive ok. Don't capitalize my name and do use underscore with last address. I am sure you know this but can't... more
                • Eddie/try this address....Joyce, Sun Aug 20 16:09
        • Anonymous/once again...Joyce, Thu Aug 17 07:46
          Anonymous, I am sorry my sense of humour is regarded as condescending, but I admit computers don't have eyebrows, so it happens. To address your responses, civilly, of course, I have to ask as I do... more
        • anon/correction...Joyce, Wed Aug 16 08:17
          My last line didn't make any sense because my computer is doing funny things like skipping letters and words. It should read, " Now that you are back from the past by time machine, apparently you... more
    • Re: drinking...Bob Cash, Tue Aug 15 14:29
      Damn, Bruce, as many times as I've argued this issue with Joyce, I never noticed Wyatt saying Ike took a drink in the Oriental. Over all, I think yours is the best (and shortest) post I have seen on... more
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