Joyce...
Woody....
Mon Aug 12, 2019 17:15
162.255.122.42

Certainly the whole event had nothing to do with city arms violations, but what was it about? Why would the cowboys threaten to kill the Earps or drive them out of the county? Did the Earps spend a huge amount of time combing the frontier areas of southern Arizona, parts of New Mexico, ect., hunting 'cowboys?'
It seems to me they were town dwellers who reportedly spent a lot of time in town in the local saloons and gambling dens. When were they regularly reported to be out riding the range looking for cow thieves? How often did they run into them to create such animosity? Wasn't that the Sheriff's deputies jobs; to follow up reported incidences?
I just don't see reports of the Earps and Holliday camping out in the Dragoons and Peloncillo mountains while hunting up 'cowboys!'
Can anyone explain this with solid references other than opinions? Maybe I have been barking up the wrong tree.
Regards,
Joyce

  • From a conglomeration of gunfight notes: "Tom, I think it is a mistake to view the October 26 situation solely in terms of a violation of a city firearms violation. Clearly the Earps were expecting... more
    • Whatever value is placed on the No. 9 gunlawTom Gaumer, Tue Aug 13 12:44
      K.t K. and Woody (who I know is missed by all) Three simple things remain true in my opinion. Had Billy and Frank checked their guns in the Grand Hotel saloon as the law required and where others... more
      • Tom/BehanPat Mulligan, Tue Aug 20 04:39
        Tom how long did Behan have? Once he let FM keep his weapon had he not failed to disarm him? How long was Virgil to wait on Behan when the whole town was waiting for him to act and he was being... more
        • Re: Tom/BehanThomas K Gaumer, Wed Aug 21 06:21
          Pat Behan said he had been down there less than 15 minutes from when he was in Haffords bar at Fourth and Allen. Virgil said Behan had left for Fremont Street "Somewhere in the neighborhood of a... more
      • Success and failureAnonymous, Wed Aug 14 00:38
        The problem here is that without a baseline standard for what would constitute success, we can't conclude if Behan succeeded or failed in his task. To this point it is really a subjective conclusion... more
        • Re: Success and failureWayne Sanderson, Mon Aug 19 18:27
          Perhaps the best way to gauge whether Behan's "intervention" failed would be the actions of the lawman who was supervising the incident and who had the final call on how it was to be handled- Virgil... more
          • Re: Success and failureSteve Gatto, Tue Aug 20 07:21
            Virgil himself set the condition for which he would act when John L. Fonck, a former Los Angeles police captain, came up to Virgil telling him the cowboys were making threats against Earp and offered ... more
            • Dang. if you had just put that at the top of this threadThomas K Gaumer, Wed Aug 21 19:01
              Steve you could have cut short this threat considerably. LOL I would point out this makes Virgil even more responsible for the fight and Behan even less as Virgil's decisions likely were not based on ... more
        • Sterling post, BenK.t.K., Wed Aug 14 04:30
          Makes all the sense in the world, solidifying my long-standing and total agreement with Woody that Behan took too long. The Cow=boys had little reason to follow any suggestion by Johnny for... more
          • Speculation versus witness testimonyTom Gaumer, Wed Aug 14 12:07
            Was Behan trying to disarm the cowboys? Testimony of James Kehoe on page 68 of Turner. "Frank was in debt to our firm (Kehoe was a butcher) and I was standing at the door of our market speaking with... more
            • Question...?Jeff Morey, Wed Aug 14 12:32
              Tom, Where does Behan corroborate Kehoe’s testimony? My Best, Jeff Morey
              • He doesn't if memory servesAnonymous, Wed Aug 14 13:18
                Jeff Some people suggest Kehoe was a completely false witness. I was inviting Jeff Morey to make that post. Here is a possible resolution of another matter, courtesy of Garth Gould and not to the... more
                • I didn’t laugh, but I smiled.Jeff Morey, Wed Aug 14 13:59
                  Tom, What I’ve never understood is, if Billy Clanton was “an important witness against Doc Holliday”, as some have claimed, why wouldn’t Ike Clanton state that in his testimony? My Best, Jeff Morey
                  • Good point. Ike may be a flawed individualTom Gaumer, Wed Aug 14 16:11
                    Jeff If the Earp's were involved in the Benson stage murders and knew Billy was a witness and feared him for that reason, why would Billy or his brothers still be alive 7 months later? Why a public... more
                    • Exactly!Jeff Morey, Wed Aug 14 17:21
                      Tom, If the Earps wanted to eliminate Ike and Billy Clanton, all they had to do is blast them to hell out in the desert. The idea that they wanted a “showdown” is movie foolishness. Who in their... more
          • Re: Sterling post, BenBen Harleman, Wed Aug 14 06:29
            Hey Kenny, thanks for the compliment. I agree, just from a common sense standpoint, that if it takes you that long to get cooperation then "authority" may not be your strong suit. I can't imagine a... more
        • Re: Success and failureTom Gaumer, Wed Aug 14 02:17
          Howdy Ben Virgil asked Behan to go with him to disarm the cowboys. Behan said the cowboys would not give up their arms to Virgil. Behan said he would try to disarm them by himself. Virgil said... more
          • Re: Success and failureBen Harleman, Wed Aug 14 06:22
            Hi Tom, "Virgil asked Behan to go with him to disarm the cowboys." - This scenario of them going together never transpired so it bears no weight on what actually did happen. "Behan said the cowboys... more
            • Re: Success and failureTom Gaumer, Wed Aug 14 13:02
              Howdy Ben "Virgil asked Behan to go with him to disarm the cowboys." - This scenario of them going together never transpired so it bears no weight on what actually did happen. IT ESTablished a kind... more
              • Tom/BehanPat Mulligan, Tue Aug 20 04:51
                I think Behan's failure was judged by the fact that he did not disarm FM but instead allowed him to return to the other's while still armed. This was possibly observed and reported backed to VE. VE... more
                • Howdy Pat At the point Behan said he encountered Frank and said he told him to disarm, Behan had walked from Haffords one block to the corner of Fourth and Fremont. That might take three minutes at... more
                  • Re: TomPat Mulligan, Fri Aug 23 06:47
                    When a Law Officer tells you to disarm you do immediately. Then you are no longer considered a threat. Behan claimed he asked FM to disarm. Frank "demurred'. It was not legal for FM to do so. Nor... more
    • Woody.... — Joyce..., Mon Aug 12 17:15
      • Re: Woody....Tom Gaumer, Tue Aug 13 13:10
        The Earp's left town to support Capt. Hearst and the Cavalry in case a civilian arrest were necessary when some mules were stolen from the cavalry. I can't remember other ventures to the boarder or... more
      • Who are you arguing with?Jeff Morey, Mon Aug 12 17:22
        Joyce, Woody Campbell has passed away. So, who are you arguing with? My Best, Jeff Morey
        • Jeff/ofcourse...Joyce..., Tue Aug 13 05:23
          Hello Jeff, I realize Woody has passed away some time ago; I simply addressed it to the author to avoid confusion. But I didn't think I was presenting an argument so much as asking a question or two... more
          • Joyce, When it came to retorts, Woody Campbell was a regular force of nature. And, I must say, when it comes to retorts, you are also a relentless force of nature. A debate between you and Woody... more
            • ...but nevertheless, I hope someone will come up with an interesting post that would answer my questions on the Earps' time spent out on the wild prairie instead of the haunts of Tombstone. I just... more
            • Woody wins, hands down, because...K.t.K., Tue Aug 13 08:28
              ...Joyce has been barking up the wrong tree since day one. Basically a non-researcher. On the other hand, during my own researches there would be Woody Campbell contributions popping up on... more
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