Tom Gaumer
Re: Success and failure
Wed Aug 14, 2019 02:17

Howdy Ben

Virgil asked Behan to go with him to disarm the cowboys.

Behan said the cowboys would not give up their arms to Virgil.

Behan said he would try to disarm them by himself.

Virgil said disarming while in town was all he wanted.

So, disarming the cowboys was the agreed upon goal.

Neither Behan or Virgil said anything about how fast that needed to be accomplished. So, the speed, within reason, did not matter.

It seems to me they have a baseline standard and a defined parameter agreed to by Behan and Virgil--disarm the cowboys.

Behan cannot have failed or succeeded because Virgil did not allow him to finish, one way of the other.

Virgil decided all by himself that pushing past Behan and cutting off Behan's time was the way to go.

At that point Behan is out of it and Virgil has assumed full responsibility and gets the blame or credit for the results.

Each person must decide for themselves what they think of Virgil's "achievement."

It seems to me Virgil was impatient for no good reason and paid a horrible price then and in the months following. I think a competent Prosecutor might have made Virgil cry but no!

It seems to me Johnny Behan should have backed the cowboys up a few yards and into the OK Corral or gone a block and 1/3rd to the West End Corral where Virgil could not do his thing as they were no longer on the streets but in a corral.
This was especially important if Behan wished to chat the cowboys into submission. But Behan could not know that Virgil was going to disrupt his effort and achieve a fight in just a few seconds.

I think Johnny Behan is lucky that Virgil took over the effort because it shielded Behan from any blame that might have come had he actually failed to get their guns or get them out of town.
Keep Laughing

  • Success and failureAnonymous, Wed Aug 14 00:38
    The problem here is that without a baseline standard for what would constitute success, we can't conclude if Behan succeeded or failed in his task. To this point it is really a subjective conclusion... more
    • Re: Success and failureWayne Sanderson, Mon Aug 19 18:27
      Perhaps the best way to gauge whether Behan's "intervention" failed would be the actions of the lawman who was supervising the incident and who had the final call on how it was to be handled- Virgil... more
      • Re: Success and failureSteve Gatto, Tue Aug 20 07:21
        Virgil himself set the condition for which he would act when John L. Fonck, a former Los Angeles police captain, came up to Virgil telling him the cowboys were making threats against Earp and offered ... more
        • Dang. if you had just put that at the top of this threadThomas K Gaumer, Wed Aug 21 19:01
          Steve you could have cut short this threat considerably. LOL I would point out this makes Virgil even more responsible for the fight and Behan even less as Virgil's decisions likely were not based on ... more
    • Sterling post, BenK.t.K., Wed Aug 14 04:30
      Makes all the sense in the world, solidifying my long-standing and total agreement with Woody that Behan took too long. The Cow=boys had little reason to follow any suggestion by Johnny for... more
      • Speculation versus witness testimonyTom Gaumer, Wed Aug 14 12:07
        Was Behan trying to disarm the cowboys? Testimony of James Kehoe on page 68 of Turner. "Frank was in debt to our firm (Kehoe was a butcher) and I was standing at the door of our market speaking with... more
        • Question...?Jeff Morey, Wed Aug 14 12:32
          Tom, Where does Behan corroborate Kehoe’s testimony? My Best, Jeff Morey
          • He doesn't if memory servesAnonymous, Wed Aug 14 13:18
            Jeff Some people suggest Kehoe was a completely false witness. I was inviting Jeff Morey to make that post. Here is a possible resolution of another matter, courtesy of Garth Gould and not to the... more
            • I didn’t laugh, but I smiled.Jeff Morey, Wed Aug 14 13:59
              Tom, What I’ve never understood is, if Billy Clanton was “an important witness against Doc Holliday”, as some have claimed, why wouldn’t Ike Clanton state that in his testimony? My Best, Jeff Morey
              • Good point. Ike may be a flawed individualTom Gaumer, Wed Aug 14 16:11
                Jeff If the Earp's were involved in the Benson stage murders and knew Billy was a witness and feared him for that reason, why would Billy or his brothers still be alive 7 months later? Why a public... more
                • Exactly!Jeff Morey, Wed Aug 14 17:21
                  Tom, If the Earps wanted to eliminate Ike and Billy Clanton, all they had to do is blast them to hell out in the desert. The idea that they wanted a “showdown” is movie foolishness. Who in their... more
                  • Yep and that ruins us as movie heroesTom Gaumer, Thu Aug 15 01:40
                    Jeff but we win which is more important in real life. I loved seeing western heroes in the movies and on TV settle important issues by their skill with a gun. Very dramatic. However it gradually... more
      • Re: Sterling post, BenBen Harleman, Wed Aug 14 06:29
        Hey Kenny, thanks for the compliment. I agree, just from a common sense standpoint, that if it takes you that long to get cooperation then "authority" may not be your strong suit. I can't imagine a... more
    • Re: Success and failure — Tom Gaumer, Wed Aug 14 02:17
      • Re: Success and failureBen Harleman, Wed Aug 14 06:22
        Hi Tom, "Virgil asked Behan to go with him to disarm the cowboys." - This scenario of them going together never transpired so it bears no weight on what actually did happen. "Behan said the cowboys... more
        • Re: Success and failureTom Gaumer, Wed Aug 14 13:02
          Howdy Ben "Virgil asked Behan to go with him to disarm the cowboys." - This scenario of them going together never transpired so it bears no weight on what actually did happen. IT ESTablished a kind... more
          • Tom/BehanPat Mulligan, Tue Aug 20 04:51
            I think Behan's failure was judged by the fact that he did not disarm FM but instead allowed him to return to the other's while still armed. This was possibly observed and reported backed to VE. VE... more
            • Howdy Pat At the point Behan said he encountered Frank and said he told him to disarm, Behan had walked from Haffords one block to the corner of Fourth and Fremont. That might take three minutes at... more
              • Re: TomPat Mulligan, Fri Aug 23 06:47
                When a Law Officer tells you to disarm you do immediately. Then you are no longer considered a threat. Behan claimed he asked FM to disarm. Frank "demurred'. It was not legal for FM to do so. Nor... more
                • Pat See Steve Gattos post. Virgil decided what to do based on what a vigilante leader told him according to Virgil's own testimony. It had nothing to do with Behan. Thus Virgil is 100% to blame for... more
                  • Re: modern police negotiate regularly to avoid violenceWayne Sanderson, Sat Aug 24 22:40
                    I’m afraid you may be mischaracterizing the Tombstone Vigilance Committee by painting them with the same brush as the San Francisco vigilantes of the gold rush period. The Vigilance Committee in... more
                    • I do not deride the Tombstone vigilantesTom Gaumer, Thu Aug 29 01:03
                      Wayne I think much of their impact was just the knowledge they existed and were seen occasionally as on October 26, 1881. They filled the street after the shooting to make sure nothing more happened... more
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