Tom Gaumer
Gary, Gary, Gary - Since You and I have never
Fri Aug 30, 2019 13:02


met or communicated before I can understand why you might be unaware of the existence of a red tail and black horns protruding from myself. Had you that knowledge you might be more sure of which side I favor in the Spicer Hearing if I favor either side. The actual view of people with horns and tails needs to be graphed along with those that seek to stimulate learning through discussion other ways. The lines run nearly on top of each other, in my opinion.

My problem with Fitch's questions are they show the lack of character and a dedication to winning at any cost by any means necessary. More simply he is a liar and a cheat, the "some other tactics" you mentioned? Impugning testimony by implying information with lies may make him a winner in a
corrupt and evil system. But it further corrupts and builds contempt by the public for a system that has little or no respect for a concept that might be important--Justice. Fitch was definitely on the wrong side of that
for those of us who think it important.

Here is a question then about a rumor, made up probably, like Fitch's rumors. Question to Virgil Earp on the stand: Is it not true that all five Earp brothers are sterile and childless due to endless exposure to venereal disease of the prostitutes you run and that the accompanying damage to your minds makes it impossible rely on anything you say as accurate? No lying to the judge there just asking about a rumor. Right?

I'm glad to here Lubet commit to lying, secrecy and hypocrisy coming before truth. But most people already know that and it is reflected in the peoples opinion of lawyers.
I will read anyone like him that confirms my opinion as Fitch does so well.

The witness needs to assert himself or herself and get it out before the judge can object to having the lack of integrity of one of his brother lawyers impugned.
Keep Laughing

  • Lack of Stuff?Gary Roberts, Fri Aug 30 08:39
    Tom, I'm not sure what your problem is with Fitch's questions. His job was to raise doubts about the prosecution's case by impugning the testimony of the prosecution's witness (and using some other... more
    • P.S.Tom Gaumer, Fri Aug 30 22:56
      Gary "Tom, I'm not sure what your problem is with Fitch's questions. His job was to raise doubts about the prosecution's case by impugning the testimony of the prosecution's witness (and using some... more
      • "What kind of pistol?"Steve Gatto, Sat Aug 31 05:24
        Tom, One of my favorite examples of clairvoyance between Fitch (presumably it was Fitch asking the questions) and a witness occurs in Hatch's testimony when describing Doc's pistol: "Q. What... more
        • This can get a little complicated--Yes?Tom Gaumer, Sat Aug 31 12:27
          Howdy Steve With contradictory information it is hard to understand what was going on. The question of Doc's armament and how he used it is a tough one. Fitch would not give up on a story he found... more
      • Are you serious?Jeff Morey, Sat Aug 31 02:40
        Tom, Are you being serious? Do you actually believe that Thomas Fitch was wickedly trying to hoodwink Wells Spicer by posing the questions you cited? I swear, sometimes I think you have lost your... more
        • Senses! I don't have no stinking senses!!Tom Gaumer, Sat Aug 31 13:22
          Jeff I think the lying Fitch was using is usually used in cases where a jury is present in hopes of poisoning the thinking of a least one to get a not guilty. Can also be used to undermine a witness... more
          • You outrage is outrageous!Jeff Morey, Tue Sep 3 08:51
            Tom, Your sense of moral indignation is histrionic. hyperbolic, excessive, extreme, over-the-top, exaggerated and woefully unconvincing. Fitch isn’t “lying”. He’s asking Ike Clanton questions. Does... more
            • our outrage at my outrage you perceive is funnyTom Gaumer, Wed Sep 4 04:50
              Jeff I'm not outraged just observant of ethics by sleazy and/or tricky lawyers. Obviously a lawyer’s questions and the answers are meant to influence the jury and/or the judge and now days the... more
              • You are just repeating yourself. (nm)Jeff Morey, Wed Sep 4 07:36
                • Jeff no testimony by the telegrapher or the gun clerk and ignoring anything else that might reflect on the questions. And we are both happy. Sounds good to me. Keep Laughing Tom
                  • Incomplete casesBen Harleman, Wed Sep 4 21:30
                    Hi Tom, I've always regarded the cases as incomplete, due to the fact that both sides were probably keeping their powder dry in case they went to a full trial. I'm not applying this to any specific... more
                    • I think you are right and it makes dealingTom Gaumer, Wed Sep 4 21:57
                      HI Ben with some of these issues difficult to impossible as we just can't know everything about their positions and tactics about a possible trial. Keep Laughing Tom
    • “Provables”?Jeff Morey, Fri Aug 30 14:53
      Gary, It’s good to see you back on this Forum. I don’t know what to make of the question to Billy Claiborne asking if he “enjoyed” watching the gunfight. It’s hard to understand why the Prosecution... more
    • Gary, Gary, Gary - Since You and I have never — Tom Gaumer, Fri Aug 30 13:02
      • Fitch's legal skillsGary Roberts, Sun Sep 8 14:19
        Tom, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. Nor do I claim to be an expert on legal history or Tom Fitch. But I continue to be troubled by your concept of legal practice and what you call "lies." ... more
        • Fitch ethical/lying problems and legal skillThomas Gaumer, Mon Sep 9 00:54
          Now, you may have a record of Fitch's lack of character, dedication to winning at any cost, and lying, but, though controversial at times, I have not seen the case made. And I disagree that the... more
          • Hell, TomGary Roberts, Wed Sep 11 13:13
            I've been trying to figure out this bloody half-minute since 1957. It hardly seems worth the effort, looking back, but I don't regret it. I'm tramped the streets of Tombstone figuratively for all... more
            • Hell GaryThomas Gaumer, Thu Sep 12 12:34
              I don't expect to figure it out, having gone from one view to another and back again several times. However there is one thing I am sure about Everyone agrees that Gary Roberts is someone we should... more
        • so I have no reason to respond to your biography of Fitch as a well known and famous and accomplished man and will skip that. I also used the word lie to focus on the issues, apparently it worked... more
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