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Baruch
Jesus regarding divinity and legality
Wed Jun 14, 2017 18:27
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esus in John 10:24 was quoting the psalms in Greek, the Septuagint version (in this case, to the Hellenistic rabbis, not the Palestinian rabbis). And Jesus as son of G-d, is The Rabbi, not them, not Hellenistic, not Palestinian.

Who controls the law, the rabbis or king David. There wee no rabbis in king David's time, just prophets and priests. Priests submitted to the king, and the king submitted to the prophets (if he was caught ... and he was). If king David wrote the Psalms, and king David was beloved of G-d (his name means "beloved"), then the Psalms are the king's speech (tm), and thus the king's law ;-) Like the Pope is infallible, when speaking ex-cathedra. That is how it was with the Persian king also. Here is the Greek from John ...

"ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν ὅτι, Ἐγὼ εἶπα, Θεοί ἐστε?"

The plain meaning is ... that the Jews are polytheists (at least the Hellenistic Jews are) not monotheists. There can't be more than one G-d in monotheism as per arithmetic. As far as "law" what is actually said here is "ethnic traditions" which is what "νόμῳ ὑμῶν" means. If one was speaking to Athenians, it would have meant the traditions of the Athenians. And remember, Jesus has a whole diatribe with the rabbis regarding "traditions" vs "law". Clearly in context, Jesus overturns all Jewish laws and traditions ... he is a prophetic revolutionary and miracle worker ... who is a direct threat to the Jewish government (both in Palestine and elsewhere). We aren't talking of ordinary legislation when speaking of "law" and "Jesus" in the same breath.

I happen to agree with this Jesus quote, and the Psalm it is quoting from. Are you saying that only rabbinic Judaism is Jewish? Many Jews today would disagree in practice, because they are antinomian, and Hellenistic, just as Paul was. There were many different factions in Judaism 2000 years ago, which one is correct? Basically in this dramatic quote of a Davidic Psalm, Jesus is hanging the rabbis from their own petard. It is satire. I don't know from this if Jesus is a polytheist or not. I suspect not. So not confusing to me. The rabbis aren't the authority, Hellenistic nor Palestinian. Each person, Jew and Gentile, have an personal relationship with G-d. The rabbis can go pound sand. I don't need to take this quote of king David literally ... I don't recognize monarchy.

  • Re: Some info ...ipirate2, Wed Jun 14 10:10
    Thanks for this. The Torah is the Jewish law. It seems that there is no actual Jewish document that shows the Jewish law as stated when Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, You ... more
    • Jesus regarding divinity and legality — Baruch, Wed Jun 14 18:27
      • Re: Jesus regarding divinity and legalityipirate2, Thu Jun 15 07:57
        What comes to mind after reading what you put. I do not mean you I mean the ancients. O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive "I happen to agree with this Jesus quote, and... more
        • I think you are overworking the labels ...Baruch, Thu Jun 15 12:38
          A Karaite not only rejects oral Torah, and the rabbis ... they embrace individual responsibility for interpretation (this is the point I think you would like).... more
          • Re: I think you are overworking the labels ...ipirate2, Thu Jun 15 16:13
            You might be right, and yes, I like to hear of people that interpret things in the way they want or see things their way. That is the Gnostic Christian way to some extent. We tend not to reject... more
            • Three books ...Baruch, Thu Jun 15 20:19
              The Didache, the Gospel of Thomas, and the Gospel of Mary are illustrative of the true state of affairs. The bias of Paul, the anti-semitism of the Gentiles, and the control of Rome ... pretty much... more
              • Re: Three books ...ipirate2, Thu Jun 15 20:42
                I cannot speak of The Didache as I do not know all of it. What I do know is that I have problems with some of the self-deprecation it asks of us. That should not surprise you as you know I am a... more
                • Is Gnosticism equal to egotism?Baruch, Sat Jun 17 09:46
                  To be in a congregation (synagogue) involves compromising my principles ... I am a unique individual, and so I only express what is compatible from my own POV. There is considerable overlap, so this... more
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