Marianne Luban
re: Moses
Sat Jul 22, 2017 09:55
75.162.64.30

Rich wrote:

"I don't subscribe to standard Biblical Chronology, with the cut off point of before David. All of those Patriarchs from Methuselah to Moses living such long lives, it doesn't make sense to me."

But the calculation of Eusebius only goes back to Abraham. So it's not too outrageous. For the most part, Moses seems to have been connected to Dynasty 18. Manetho equated Moses with a priest of Heliopolis and Apion, the bete noir of Josephus, wrote that he had heard that Moses came from that city, as well. Since Manetho once lived at Heliopolis, himself, one wonders how he reached this conclusion.

Rich:
""he calculated 505 years from the birth of Abram to Exodus. ""

That's the curious part. Exodus Chapter 12 states: "Now the time that the sons of Israel lived in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years. And at the end of four hundred and thirty years, to the very day, all the hosts of the Lord went out from the land of Egypt." But the early church fathers reckoned those 430 years back to the 75th year of Abraham, even though the Bible states that the Israelites did not actually come to live in Egypt until Joseph brought in his father, Jacob, and the entire family settled there. And "to the very day" means what? But a better comparison was made by Eusebius in maintaining that there were 329 years from "Moses and Crecrops" [a mythical king of Athens] to the capture of Troy. Since the end of Dynasty 19 was supposed to have been contemporaneous with the Trojan conflict, according to Africanus, that should put Moses right at the start of Dynasty 18. That's about the time when he must have been born to have been an old man about 1450, "in the year 490". Obviously, the consensus was among the early church fathers that the great exodus was not in the year 430 after Abraham's 75th year--but sixty years later.

Even prior to the Christian era, those Hebrew scholars who worked on the Septuagint [Greek Bible] rejected the premise of the Masoretic text:

Septuagint (LXX) "And the sojourning of the children of Israel, while they sojourned in the land of Egypt and the land of Canaan, was 430 years."

In other words, these men realized that the stay in Egypt was much shorter than 430 years. It was more like 215 years.


Rich:
...
"Your most recent 'reconstruction' has "...Eusebius, by whose reckoning Moses, (at 18 years old,) should have left Egypt in 1510BCE."

That's a quote from Robert Killian. I know nothing about Moses having been 18 years old when he left Egypt. BTW, my preferred chronology for ancient Egypt doesn't depend on Biblical math at all--just to be clear. I only mentioned that the math of some antique chroniclers regarding Moses apparently agrees with it.

Rich:
"--So in my Chronology, I have Abraham in 1297BC (Ramses 2), and Moses 140 years later in 1159BC(Ramses 4)."

You are entitled to your opinion but you get into trouble with the building of the Jerusalem Temple. Let's say Pseudo-Dionysius was correct and the great exodus [there were surely others in all of pharaonic history] did happen in 1450 after the death of Thutmose III. 480 later the temple went up--in in 970 BCE. It's quite acceptable. But who designed the Jerusalem Temple in your scheme? Frank Lloyd Wright? Sorry--couldn't resist.



  • re: MosesRich McQuillen, Fri Jul 21 22:40
    Hi Marianne, We are in agreement with your reading, and that your reading is in alignment with Standard Biblical Chronology. ***** I don't subscribe to standard Biblical Chronology, with the cut off... more
    • re: Moses — Marianne Luban, Sat Jul 22 09:55
      • re: Temple of JerusalemRich McQuillen, Sat Jul 22 20:06
        "But who designed the Jerusalem Temple in your scheme? Frank Lloyd Wright? Sorry--couldn't resist." -- I love the reference. :) The temple of Solomon hasn't been found yet...... more
        • re: Temple of JerusalemRobert Killian, Mon Jul 24 04:14
          Hi Rich, http://www.crystalinks.com/dynasty21.html has: Siamun:986 to 967. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-first_Dynasty_of_Egypt has: Siamun: 986 to 967. Mattis Kantor, in "THE JEWISH TIME-LINE ... more
        • re: Temple of JerusalemMarianne Luban, Sun Jul 23 09:22
          Rich: "In my scheme, or timeline, I have Solomon as a contemporary of Siamun in Egypt(975BC)." That's pretty standard but, previously you wrote: "Moses 140 years later in 1159BC(Ramses 4)". How do... more
          • re: Judges 11:26Rich McQuillen, Wed Aug 2 22:28
            "In fact, in Judges 11:26 it states that Israel had been in Canaan for 300 years already" -- The chronology in that passage is in dispute. Note: I don't have an opinion on this dispute at this time.... more
            • re: Judges 11:26Marianne Luban, Thu Aug 3 10:31
              I wrote: "In fact, in Judges 11:26 it states that Israel had been in Canaan for 300 years already" Rich: -- The chronology in that passage is in dispute." and "Three hundred years.--There is an... more
            • re: Judges 11:26Robert Killian, Thu Aug 3 03:30
              Hi Rich, You quote:---"In fact, in Judges 11:26 it states that Israel had been in Canaan for 300 years already". Yes!---If Exodus was in 2448AM, as Mattis Kantor 'places' that event in "Codex... more
            • re: Judges 11:26Rich McQuillen, Thu Aug 3 01:23
              "New International Version For three hundred years Israel occupied Heshbon, Aroer, the surrounding settlements and all the towns along the Arnon. Why didn't you retake them during that time?" -- I'm... more
              • re: Judges 11:26Robert Killian, Fri Aug 4 05:27
                Hi Rich, Just as a point of information: "The man, Israel", (Jacob), does indeed,--- 'predate',--- Moses and Exodus,--- by 210 years! If the beginning of "Israel's count", (that is Jacob), at 130yrs, ... more
                • re: Judges 11:26Robert Killian, Sat Aug 5 00:27
                  That's another 'editing' ERROR when I typed "Abram's 790th year 'Call', to go on his second trip..." It should be "Abram's 70th year 'Call' to go...".etc Bookof Jasher: 1st 'Call' and trip to Canaan... more
        • re:Temple of JerusalemRobert Killian, Sun Jul 23 00:48
          Hi Rich, Perhaps: a sequence like this? David 1008 to 968 Siamun ac.986 to 967 Solomon: ac.968 to 928 Psusennes II ac.967 to 943 Rehoboam: ac.928 to 911 Jeroboam: ac.928 to 907 Shoshenq I: ac.943 to... more
    • re: MosesRobert Killian, Sat Jul 22 04:00
      Hi Rich, For the 'Actual' birth date of Moses: Jewish calendar count 1948AM, 1813CJ/BCE, + 131yrs = 1944BCE. See: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/timeline-for-the-history-of-judaism . Enjoy,
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