Marianne Luban
Ages and Dates
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:47
75.169.199.105

94 is a perfectly possible duration of life and one can't help but notice how much more reasonable the years of people on earth become with the advent of the Monarchy. Had Solomon been a myth, one would expect him to have been assigned something over a hundred years like all the patriarchs. But what was the reason for such outrageous life-spans? The Biblical authors weren't stupid. It must have occurred to them [him] that no acquaintance had ever been around that long and that the odd one who reached 100 was pretty creaky by then. Were these impossible ages merely time fillers? There are some modern Jews [Holocaust survivors, as it happens] who lived to be a 110 and even beyond. None that I know of made it to 120, though.

Now, Eusebius was very clear about his dates. He reckoned the birth of Abraham retrospectively from a year of a Roman emperor and few have ever disputed that this is a time frame when Abraham should have lived. Then Eusebius says that there were 505 years between Abraham and Moses, which is based on this: "Abraham fathered Isaac at the age of 100. Isaac fathered Jacob at the age of 60. Jacob fathered Levi at the age of 86. Levi fathered Kohath at the age of 46. Kohath fathered Amran at the age of 63. Amran fathered Moses at the age of 70. Moses led his people out of Egypt when he was 80 years old. Thus from the first year of Abraham until the exodus from Egypt, a total of 505 years transpired."

For some reason, however, when other writers saw Moses compared to the list of Egyptian kings in the epitomes, they knew that he could not have been 80 years old in 1510 BCE, which would have been the date of an exodus according to the math of Eusebius. Syncellus clearly spelled it out by saying that, during the reign of Ahmose, Moses was still young. How did he know this? I think, if anything, there must have been some knowledge from somewhere that indicated that Moses "went forth from Egypt" during the reign of Ahmose I but some were confused into believing that meant his leading an exodus as an old man of 80. Manetho, who realized much more than he is modernly given credit for, never put Ahmose down as the pharaoh of an exodus. I think that, for this Egyptian historian, Ahmose was just one of those princes who waged a "prolonged war against the Shepherds", none of whom he named. He began his Dynasty 18 with "Tethmosis" and that pharaoh was believed to have seen an exodus or expulsion--as Hatshepsut wrote at the Speos Artemidos, claiming she was already a king when it occurred. One can't forget, though, that she appears to have presented herself as a co-regent with her father, Thutmose I, while he lived--a man who certainly had the capability of expelling people from Avaris if he managed to build an empire. It is my belief that Avaris could never be separated from an exodus in the minds of the ancient historians. Is it a mere coincidence that 1510 BCE falls within the reign of Thutmose I by the High Chronology?

Eusebius, himself, despite his math that came up with 505 years, including 80 years for Moses, looked to a man named Cencheres as the Pharaoh of the real exodus, the Biblical one, believing [erroneously] that he existed at the end of Dynasty 18. That is another whole kettle of fish that I have addressed here before. But my point is that when they saw an Egyptian kinglist, Dynasty 18, the early church fathers seemed to understand that Moses was associated with it, despite the mentions of "Pithom and Raamses" in the Book of Exodus. While Egyptian chroniclers appended kings named Ramesses to the roster of 18th Dynasty kings, not a single writer ever pointed to one of them as being the "Pharaoh" who opposed Moses.

  • re: Psusennes I and SolomonAnonymous , Wed Apr 18 16:55
    Anonymous wrote: "Marianne, you may also find it of interest that Flavius Josephus records an 80-year reign for King Solomon ( Jewish Antiquities 8.211). So if the year of Solomon's accession was... more
    • Ages and Dates — Marianne Luban, Thu Apr 19 10:47
      • Re: Ages and DatesAnonymous , Thu Apr 19 15:56
        Marianne wrote: "It is my belief that Avaris could never be separated from an exodus in the minds of the ancient historians. Is it a mere coincidence that 1510 BCE falls within the reign of Thutmose... more
        • Re: Ages and DatesMarianne Luban, Thu Apr 19 18:12
          Anonymous wrote: "Marianne wrote more but the quote above is what I want to address. So here goes. Avaris was indeed connected with the Israelite exodus from Egypt. However, the early "church... more
          • Re: Ages and DatesAnonymous, Fri Apr 20 14:11
            Marianne wrote: " I am of the opinion that Moses was still young in the reign of Ahmose, as Syncellus pointed out. This makes sense to me for several reasons." Anonymous: So did Syncellus get it... more
            • Re: Ages and DatesMarianne Luban, Fri Apr 20 16:04
              I really don't like the idea that somebody posts here without having the courage of their convictions to do so under their own name. I thought you might be a reasonable interlocutor, at first--but... more
              • Re: Ages and DatesAnonymous, Mon Apr 23 15:50
                Marianne wrote: "That's not an answer--just a patronizing lecture. Well, you'll soon learn. " Anonymous here: My answer was not meant to be patronizing but encouraging--as in encouraging you not to... more
              • Rulers of Foreign Lands?Jon Smyth, Sat Apr 21 07:38
                Marianne Luban wrote: "I agree in theory but there were no such people as "Hyksos". It just means "Rulers of a foreign land" and could mean anyone from anywhere. In fact, Manetho merely referred to... more
                • re: Rulers of Foreign Lands?Marianne Luban, Sat Apr 21 09:38
                  Jon wrote: "Interestingly, all the identified Hyksos kings; Khyan, Khamudi, Anat-Her, Aper-Anat, Semqen, and Sakar-Her, used that same title (Heqa-Khaswt), except one. The only Hyksos ruler to not... more
                  • re: Rulers of Foreign Lands?Jon Smyth, Mon Apr 30 20:41
                    Marianne wrote: " "XAswt", though, is a plural. It means "foreign lands" and the singular is "XAst". It would mean foreign if the throwstick was present, as it stands it just means "lands" (desert... more
                    • re: Rulers of Foreign Lands?Marianne Luban, Tue May 1 10:57
                      I wrote: "XAswt", though, is a plural. It means "foreign lands" and the singular is "XAst". Jon: "It would mean foreign if the throwstick was present, as it stands it just means "lands" (desert... more
                  • re: Rulers of Foreign Lands?Marianne Luban, Sat Apr 21 10:32
                    I wrote: "So did the rulers really use the title "HqA XAswt", as you indicate, in the plural?" I see that this is what Bietak indicates in an abstract of a piece on the Wiley Library site entitled... more
                  • re: Rulers of Foreign Lands?Marianne Luban, Sat Apr 21 09:43
                    Okay--it was Strabo. He wrote that Xois was in the interior of Lower Egypt and was both an island and a city in the marshes.
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