Marianne Luban
Hatshepsut's Heb-sed
Thu Feb 14, 2008 13:42
67.150.8.91 (XFF: 81.106.124.212)

I wrote:

1534 BC is probably the year of the birth of Hatshepsut, herself, if that southern sky has been correctly interpreted. It can work out. Look:

1534 Year of the birth of Hatshepsut

1534 minus 16 = 1518 = beginning of reign of Thutmose I, already being a man with a wife [or wives] and children when he succeeded Amenhotep I.

1518 minus 8= 1510 = death of Thutmose I, beginning reign of Thutmose II

1510 minus 5 =1505= death of Thutmose II

1505 minus 23 =1482 = Year 23 of Thutmose III, fitting New Moon Cycle

Hatshepsut celebrated a Heb-sed in Year 15. Joyce Tyldesley wrote the only complete biography of the woman-king that I know of and she said, "However, itremains possible that Year 15 was chosen as a special year because it marked an important 30th anniversary. If Hatshepsut had been only 15 at the death of Thutmose II, this may well have been her own thirtieth year or, given that she frequently portrayed herself as the immediate successor to Thutmose I, it may well have been thirty years since the death of her father. It may even have been, given that Hatshepsut described herself as her father's co-regent, thirty years since the accession of Thutmose I."

I can best agree with the last. If Hatshepsut celebrated a Heb-sed in 1490, then 30 years before that would have been 1520. I have Thutmose I succeeding in 1518 above, but he may have already been a co-regent with Amenhotep I as early as 1520. That 1518 may have been his first year as sole king, though, finds some support from this inscription of Hatshepsut here:

"Year 2, 2 Peret 29, the third day of the festival of Amun...being the ordaination of the Two Lands for me in the broad hall of the Southern Opet [Luxor] while his majesty [Amun] delivered an oracle for me in the presence of this good god."

This is block 287 of the Chapelle Rouge and can only refer to Year 2 of Thutmose I. Meaning, of course, that Hatshepsut was shown by Amun, in the presence of her biological father, to be his true heir now that he was no longer anyone's heir, himself. A complete fiction, it goes without saying. Year 2 of Thutmose II is out and so is Year 2 of Thutmose III because the tomb of Ramose and Hatnofret, the parents of Senenmut, contain inscriptions from Year 7. One of them still has Hatshepsut as "God's Wife" and the other as "the Good Goddess Maatkare", so that has been seen as the year of the switch, the time of the usurpation. If so, then it hardly makes sense that Hatshepsut would have been propagandizing an oracle in Year 2 of her nephew. It's not difficult to fathom the psychology of Hatshepsut. Her she is, a daughter of her father, born of a non-royal woman or at least one who isn't a king's daughter. There is her father, also married to a king's daughter, who produces sons. But none of them are as clever as Hatshepsut--or at least that's how she sees it, being her father's spoiled pet, besides. Worse still, she has to become the consort of that son of the blood of Ahmose I and can't get her own son, gives birth only to Neferure. Finally, she sees her chance in the form of a rather defenseless youngster, Thutmose III, becomes his regent--and plots her rise from there. She will, of course, overshadow that half-brother of hers, who never amounted to much. Alas, Hatshepsut never reckoned with a boy who had even more ambition than she did and who was determined to put everyone in the shade. And did, as soon as he got his own chance.

Tory, Skyview Cafe is not the only lunar softwear on earth. I got my New Moon data from NASA. Also, are you sure you're reckoning the psDntiw as the "no moon"? Because that's what it is. An inscription at Karnak makes that clear.

  • Re: All Roads Lead to 1570 BCTory, Thu Feb 14 11:05
    Hi George, My mistake. Not III-Shemu 9, but I-Shemu 4. This is from an inscription on the 7th pylon, Karnak. Regards, Tory
    • Hatshepsut's Heb-sed — Marianne Luban, Thu Feb 14 13:42
      • Astronomical DatingTerry E, Fri Feb 15 05:31
        Dear Marianne, I freely confess my ignorance of things celestial as far as ancient chronology is concerned. But I also confess my great scepticism about this whole subject. I appreciate the... more
        • Re: Astronomical DatingMarianne Luban, Fri Feb 15 16:54
          TE: I freely confess my ignorance of things celestial as far as ancient chronology is concerned. But I also confess my great scepticism about this whole subject. I appreciate the attraction of trying ... more
          • Re: Astronomical DatingTerry E, Sat Feb 16 04:29
            Dear Marianne, Thank you for your comments. First an apology: I did not intend my post to be a blast at you or your chronological views although I realise on re-reading it why you think I might have... more
          • Astronomical DatingDavid Rice, Sat Feb 16 01:54
            > Marianne (or others) -- do you have a convenient list of these at hand? -- David Rice
            • Post Exhilic Sabbath YearsDavid Rice, Sun Feb 17 00:09
              Hello, all -- a different subject just for a moment. There are different views about the dates on which Sabbath years were kept after the exile. Some conclude that a Sabbath commenced in 38 bc,... more
              • Post-Exilic Sabbath YearsTory, Sun Feb 17 10:27
                Hi David, We need to know for certain the dates of Ezra's and Nehemiah's activity and which Persian kings they served. There is no explicit statement linking the public reading of the Torah by Ezra,... more
                • Re: Post-Exilic Sabbath YearsTory, Sat Feb 23 19:25
                  Hi David, Or -- if we take 573 BCE to be the year of a Yovel (Jubilee), the 25th year of the captivity as reported in Ezekiel 40:1, then the fall of 515 BCE would be the start of the first year of a... more
              • Post-Exilic Sabbath YearsTory, Sun Feb 17 10:25
                Hi David, We need to know for certain the dates of Ezra's and Nehemiah's activity and which Persian kings they served. There is no explicit statement linking the public reading of the Torah by Ezra,... more
      • Re: Hatshepsut's Heb-sedTory, Thu Feb 14 17:24
        Yes, that is 'no moon' at dawn on II-Peret 30 in 1530 BCE (8-Mar Julian), and 'no moon' at dawn on I-Shemu 21 in 1532 BCE (28-May Julian). Regards, Tory
        • V. Spaeth and the Birth of MosesMarianne Luban, Sun Feb 17 05:52
          Another conjunction and date from the very interesting Von Spaeth: http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap1_en.asp
          • Re: V. Spaeth and the Birth of MosesTory, Sun Feb 17 06:51
            So Moshe, born according to Spaeth in 1534, was the historical Senenmut. It seems like that is where Spaeth is headed from what little of his website I have read? There is at least one orthodox rabbi ... more
            • Re: V. Spaeth and the Birth of MosesMarianne Luban, Sun Feb 17 09:38
              Tory: So Moshe, born according to Spaeth in 1534, was the historical Senenmut. It seems like that is where Spaeth is headed from what little of his website I have read? There is at least one orthodox ... more
              • Re: V. Spaeth and the Birth of MosesMarianne Luban, Sun Feb 17 10:34
                Oh--and BTW, in my own work, "The Exodus Chronicles: Beliefs, Legends & Rumors from Antiquity Regarding the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt" [2003] I also proposed Senenmut as a candidate for... more
                • Re: V. Spaeth and the Birth of MosesMarianne Luban, Sun Feb 17 22:29
                  You know, this is pretty wild. That date for the birth of Moses works out every time. The Torah says that Moses didn't return to Egypt until he was 80 "because all who had sought his life were dead". ... more
                  • But, as usual--disagreement even in antiquityMarianne Luban, Tue Feb 19 06:14
                    Naturally, wouldn't you know that some ancient authors, like Eusebius and Artapanus failed to believe that the Hebrews left Egypt 430 years after they had arrived--and that's one of the reasons... more
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